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Film "Kingdom of Heaven" (contains spoilers)

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Eruanna



Joined: 11 Jan 2005
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Location: Dor-Cuarthol, betwixt the Bow and the Helm...

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 1:17 pm    Post subject: Film "Kingdom of Heaven" (contains spoilers) Reply with quote

SPOILER ALERT

OK, many of us love the medieval-based world of LOTR. "Kingdom of Heaven" (KOH) is a film set in the Third Crusade.

I saw it and I thought it well done! Some things were played around with historically speaking (characters, clothing, etc.) but overall, pure eye candy for me! Very Happy

I was impressed with the characterisation of Baldwin IV, the Leper King by Edward Norton. I adored the inventive costume! I was also waiting to see Richard I, the Lionheart...

The Templars and Hospitallers were essentially fighting monks...warriors who had taken holy vows. I did not get this from the film, or it was a bit too subtle. The Hospitaller (David Thewliss) seems very "saintly" and actually performs Last Rites for one character who dies. This monk must have also been a priest, because only a priest can administer Last Rites, and not just any common monk can do it. They did have priests in the ranks of the crusading Orders to say Mass and do other priestly essentials. The Hospitaller character was also rendering medical aid to another character, which made sense. (Think of the word "hospital" and medical services...)

The main battle seems to be based on the Battle of Hattin in 1187, tho' this is not stated in the film verbatim. Yes, the Hospitallers and the Templars were beheaded after the defeat, according to chronicles, one by one... Crying or Very sad

I DID like the rosewater "snowcones" of Saladin!

Oh, yes, and it stars Orlando "Legolas" Bloom and Marton "Celeborn" Csokas! Need I say more? Very Happy

Your thoughts on this film?? Question

--Eruanna

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Last edited by Eruanna on Sun May 08, 2005 2:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Alassante
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay I am not reading most of your post cause I am gonna see it tomorrow. One question - do they show Orlando's bare butt cause ArtanisOrangeBlossom's avie needs a new butt shot for Orlando - the one in the avie is terrible!
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Eruanna



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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alassante wrote:
Okay I am not reading most of your post cause I am gonna see it tomorrow. One question - do they show Orlando's bare butt cause ArtanisOrangeBlossom's avie needs a new butt shot for Orlando - the one in the avie is terrible!


You will have a blast! I loved it!

Well...both the actors who play Legolas and Celeborn flash some skin...but I'm gonna make you guess to what extent and in what context!! Twisted Evil

--Eruanna

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Alassante
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eruanna wrote:

Well...both the actors who play Legolas and Celeborn flash some skin...but I'm gonna make you guess to what extent and in what context!! Twisted Evil

--Eruanna


As long as they aren't flashing skin together! Shocked

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Texasgirl



Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alassante wrote:
Eruanna wrote:

Well...both the actors who play Legolas and Celeborn flash some skin...but I'm gonna make you guess to what extent and in what context!! Twisted Evil

--Eruanna


As long as they aren't flashing skin together! Shocked


*snort*

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Vilwarin



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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I loved the film very much. Somehow I remember just now the debate we had about men in armour, there is really some truth about it.
Orlando looked gorgeous with his dark hair and beard.
When Guy had his bare skin scene everybody was quiet but I had to laugh helplessly, which did not help at all. *snort* I think he did a wonderful and convincing job as Balian's adversary, much better than as poor neglected Celeborn.
Ah, and when Sibylla removed the silver mask...I was really scared. If I had been younger, I surely would have had nightmares.
As for the story itself, I liked it very much. We see, that there are no 'bad guys' and 'good guys', everybody is good and bad in their own way - save Balian, who is of course very noble and knightly. I wondered one thing, though: As blacksmith he may know how to wield a sword, but it is a very different matter to ride into battle and defend a city, he would not even be able to read.
But being very interseted in history and religious matters, I just had to go watch it, and was not disappointed.

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VanatheEverYoung



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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot recommend this movie enough. I loved the balance between Christian and Muslim. There was a "bad" guy, but thank God and Allah that it wasn't the Muslims. As noble as Balian was, so was Saladin. I especially loved the imagery and symbolism with Saladin and the cross towards the end. I think Orlando stepped up his performance a lot from previous films and played the lead role extremely well.

I didn't catch the Templars in the movie, but there was a lot to take in. And my non-history major friends kept leaning over and asking me to explain things. I'll have to go again and watch in silence Razz.

My friends were shocked by the graphic battle scenes and amount of blood, but I thought they were some of the most realistic I've seen. Don't watch if violence isn't your thing. It is a movie revolving around war, after all.

I've got to make a trip to the bookstore now and read up on the Hospitalliers. I'd never heard of them before, but I thought Hospitallier was one of the strongest characters. That, and David Thewlis is one of my favorite actors Cool.

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Eruanna



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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 1:15 pm    Post subject: Film Reply with quote

Quote:
My friends were shocked by the graphic battle scenes and amount of blood, but I thought they were some of the most realistic I've seen. Don't watch if violence isn't your thing. It is a movie revolving around war, after all.


War is bloody...it has always been bloody. For good or for ill, it always will be. The Duke of Wellington said in the 19th century said, "The worst thing next to a battle lost is a battle won." The Earl of Aberdeen said, "It may be owned that battle is a wonderful thing, but one should be at a distance." Crying or Very sad

The role of Balian d'Ibelin (actually a real historical person) was well done by Mr. Bloom. As a Buddhist, I am sure he was thinking about his role and the moral and religious context. He said his character Paris in Troy was doing a wrong thing...stealing another man's wife.

Mr. Csokas did well as the handsome if wicked Guy de Lusignan, King of Jerusalem. All this about Baldwin inplying that he wanted Balian to marry his sister is pure Hollywood. Baldwin had Sibylla take Guy as her second husband and appointed him as his Regent. The real tragedy is that Baldwin was very intelligent, and stricken with a fearful disease and died at the age of 25. Some chronicles state he was very beautiful, perhaps adding to the legend and making use of the tragedy.

I understand, BTW, that coming to table (dinner table) in harness/chain (armour) was poor etiquette and Guy did this in the film. I also take that the film made Sibylla out to be a tart by the way her husband Guy spoke of her openly. One gets the impression she took to pursuing any pretty face that took her fancy.

Quote:
I've got to make a trip to the bookstore now and read up on the Hospitalliers. I'd never heard of them before, but I thought Hospitallier was one of the strongest characters.


A good place to start reading of the crusading orders is the book "The Knights of Christ" by Terence Wise. For the Third Crusade and the Battle of Hattin, read "Hattin: 1187" by David Nicolle. Short and informative books. You might also look at:

www.newadvent.org

This is a Catholic history resource and does not allow hot linking to articles, so type in Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem (1099-1291) or some of those key words, and the article should show up. It is a few pages long and is a very concise history of the Crusaders states and their monarchs.

Yes, the roles of the holy knights were really subdued. Even a short line from Mr. Thewliss about celibacy and resisting the charms of the maidens of Jerusalem could have stressed that he was truly a monk. Wink

In closing, it is interesting to note that Guy wore the blue (in the film) arms of the noble house of Jerusalem but also the red and white surcoat of the Templars whom he was allied with in the films. All that chanting "God will it!" Married men, esp. high nobles and kings, could have "honourary membership" in the holy crusading orders, so one would presume that Guy would be such a member.

All in all, a lot of scholarship even when stretching history a bit. I am buying this DVD!

If you are interested in a fantasy novel trilogy (magic and fairy folk in the Third Crusade) set in this time period, read "The Hound and Falcon" trilogy by Judith Tarr. She is a medieval historian and novelist. These books might still be in print.

That's probably more than you needed or wanted to know...

(Steps off history soap box...) Embarassed

--Eruanna, connoisseuse of lovely men in armour in books and the silver screen

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MaglorRedeemed



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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I saw this yesterday and had fun. Orlando was hot, the music was amazing, and everyone did pretty well acting-wise. My fears about OMG TEH POLITICALLY CORRECT 21ST CENTURY MESSAGES that Saracens are People Too and Orlando's Character Is Enlightened and Tolerant were realized, but in general I had a lot of fun. (Also, as my sister pointed out it was nice that Saladin was portrayed as human and not the Noble Pagan stock character.)
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Eruanna



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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaglorRedeemed wrote:
(Also, as my sister pointed out it was nice that Saladin was portrayed as human and not the Noble Pagan stock character.)


Yes, Orli was lovely...no surprise there! LOL!

I liked the fact that the film showed that war is war, and in the end, everyone shows an ugly side and a noble side.

Baldwin did indeed inflict serious damage the Muslim forces in the Batlle of Montgisard (this is alluded to in the film) and was pretty impressive as ruler; he fought in the vanguard as a teenage king. (I lost my heart to him in college when I read a biography.) He was frail in health but also tough as nails to the bitter end. Crying or Very sad

When he could not longer ride to battle, he was borne to the field in a litter. What a guy! He would not have committed the serious strategic errors (had he lived) that occurred at the Battle of Hattin, which was briefly shown in the film.

Gosh, I became enmeshed in his tragedy and was delighted to see him so sensitively portrayed in the film.

Like another boy king...Malcolm the Maid of Scotland. He died young also. Crying or Very sad

--Eruanna, who also admires the metal-clad heroes of reality

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simon22cat



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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't wanna read any of this but I couldn't help myself. Now I can't wait for this weekend for that is when I get to go see it.
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Elentari



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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At first I did not wish to go. Truly. Troy had been a disapointment (except for Eric bana and Mr. Pitt). But then one day me and my sister just had nothing to do and a lot of time to spare... we decided to drop by the theaters.

I confess I was kind of angry with the critics at the end of it. Hmm, yep, it would be nice to see Orli trying some new emotional ranges, but he did the quiet, kind and noble thing well. (and the attack of fury at the beginning, when he kils the SOB priest, was a v. good change).

Liam Nesson is always a good performance, too, IMHO.

maybe they could have showed how Balian came to be such great swordsman. They did show that he could read at the beginning, when his dad came to meet him, so we probably have that one (kind of) covered.

Being brazilian I am not sure whether a blacksmith in the 12th century would understand about engineering (water wells) and advanced war tactics (painted stones are probably a given, but what about taking down the attacking tower-things?)

All in all a good movie, that is probably going to take the pressure for a LoTR-rate one off Orlando for a while. But I still hope that he gets a kick-ass vilain role sometime soon.

(A bad guy with a face like that.... *shivers*)
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Remy12



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for sharing this spoiler with us today. You've ruined the movie that I was going to watch with my best essay writing service friends, but that's ok because it's what you're used to. You've disappointed me greatly.
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