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Was I the only one...? (Spoilers for ROTK)

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ellisk



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]Oh and I didn't like the way that Arwen's fate was suddenly tied to the ring....
[/quote]

But in thhe book, Undomiel's fate is tied to the ring--Elrond will allow her to marry no other than the King of Gondor. Aragorn cannot become king if the ring is not destroyed and Arwen Undomiel will diminish if she cannot be united with the man to whom she has bound her heart.
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slydog



Joined: 25 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soooo much to reply to.....
I did not miss Imrahil at all just as (I can see my death soon) I didnt miss Glorfindel. I saw the first film with no expectations at all and was completely sucked in. Then I read the trilogy the hobbit the silm BLT histories of middle earth unfinished tales and Iv been buying both the theatrical and extended dvds every year. pretty disturbing huh?
Ur right , alot was missed but shoving a character like imrahil back into the story would leave even less room for the story. I would have watched a six hour return of the king but no one else would have. And Arwen was waaaaay closer to Tolkiens heart than imrahil even though she was hardly in the books. But i do agree that the whole arwens fate being tied to the ring was complete and utter nonsense no matter how much PJ defends it. this was actually the only movie in the tri that annoyed me with arwen changes.
I know people will hate this idea but does any one else think that arwen should have brought anduril to aragorn?
I missed eowyns falling in love with faramir but only in hindsight. and i know ill see it in the dvd.ok really quick now
the dead looked like they popped out of the haunted mansion not scary at all. eowyn fighting witchking too much light not misty and grey enough. eomer should have worn a crown at the end. ringbearers should have been on the deck of the ship not at the bar down below.
Loved this movie mightiest and fairest of the three

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Viv
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slydog wrote:
I know people will hate this idea but does any one else think that arwen should have brought anduril to aragorn?


The problem with having Arwen journey overland all alone is.... well, it's a little out of character. Her mom was ambused and kidnapped in just such a situation. So PJ would have had to account fot that. My guess is her papa wouldn't let her out of his sight without 30 trusty burly elf guards (oh, the images that inspires. mmmm). Also, you'd get that catfight Arwen-meets-Eowyn scene, which I confess a sick interest in seeing. So yeah, Arwen bringing the sword would have been interesting, to say the least.

The problem with Elrond bringing the sword is... what does he do then? Turn around and go back home? We don't see him in any of the subsequent action. Even though he would have been useful in, say, the houses of healing.

It's a loose end I wish PJ had tidied up.
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BittenBuggy



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burly Elves? Oh yeah, thats an image.
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slydog



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if uv read as much tolkien as i have it would be kind of aparent that his female characters have a tendency to travel.
also arwen could have come with elrond. or she could have come with some dunedain or an elf escort like u said. Tolkien never seems to say explicitly that arwen isnt allowed out on weekends he just doesnt say much at all concerning her except her looks and her sad fate. Luthien rescued beren, Idril faught at the fall of gondolin, Galadriel faught to defend her mothers kin, Morwen traveled miles and miles through tons of peril to find her son, Nienor searched for turin when everyone was scared of Glaurung, Haleth was a fullscale warrior and leader, Emeldir lead her people to safety the list goes on...and on...and on. So why cant Arwen, even without an escort, travel from imladris to rohan to give her love a sword?

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SilverMoonLady



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing that irked me most about the tinkering they did with Arwen's character (aside from the theft of screen time from other more significant moments) is that in the book She. Never. Wavers!
Yes, her father said she couldn't marry Aragorn unless he defeated Sauron and regained the crown, and she certainly had to have been torn over choosing between her love and her family, but at all times she was steadfast! What was she doing during those months the Company travelled? Making his banner, to bring the people hope, because of her unswerving faith that he would win out!
What was inspiring and important, right next to the sacrifice of her passage to Valinor, was that this love that spanned decades of toil was absolute.

Rant over........ ack!
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BittenBuggy



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the Aragorn/Arwen story, even though it is given only a few pages in the appendx is so beautiful! I cry every time. Very Happy
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slydog



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree
but once the film makers commit to her character in film one they cant give her up for the rest of the ride and she was a part of the story albeit through aragorn only(book).
I could have done without all that legolas, take some screen time from him! If PJ had decided to play out the fading elves theme with him instead then i could see the reason for giving him so much screentime but even so at this point orlando bloom's acting skills are like a deer hit by a mack truck that keeps trying to pull itself out of a ditch.

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SilverMoonLady



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You, my friend, are not afraid of controversy Surprised
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slydog



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knooooow Cool
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SilverMoonLady



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*puts up her oversized shield and waits for a hail of tomatoes to fly*

You are braver than I, taking on Legolas's fine ladies. I'm just glad all the *very very nice* PEF hereabouts leave me happy in my hobbit hole:)
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slydog



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The battle between the witch king and gandalf in the extended edition will be incredible, and I hope to GOD that there is some leggy and gimli passing over sea and arwens death, properly ending ending the mythology.
P.S. Legolas killing the mamuk was cool but nothing can redeem him after the snowboarding at helms deep bs.

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Viv
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slydog wrote:
Well if uv read as much tolkien as i have it would be kind of aparent that his female characters have a tendency to travel.
also arwen could have come with elrond. or she could have come with some dunedain or an elf escort like u said. Tolkien never seems to say explicitly that arwen isnt allowed out on weekends he just doesnt say much at all concerning her except her looks and her sad fate. Luthien rescued beren, Idril faught at the fall of gondolin, Galadriel faught to defend her mothers kin, Morwen traveled miles and miles through tons of peril to find her son, Nienor searched for turin when everyone was scared of Glaurung, Haleth was a fullscale warrior and leader, Emeldir lead her people to safety the list goes on...and on...and on. So why cant Arwen, even without an escort, travel from imladris to rohan to give her love a sword?


I've read a little bit of Tolkien. Wink I believe Arwen is a special case, unlike the first-age elf girls, because of what happened with her mother. All of Celebrian's children changed a little after their mother's ordeal. The boys sought vengeance; Arwen sought wisdom. She wasn't a warrior-princess at all, at least not in the book. Yes, she could have made the trip. And it might have been entertaining. But her character would have been irrevocably changed.

Arwen in LoTR is the symbol of a warrior's wife. As someone else on this thread mentioned, her faith and love are constant. She endures the unknown with stoic patience, even when most gals would be ripping their hair out or mounting up and riding off just to ease their nerves.

Of old, a soldier's wife was a special kind of woman and commanded a great deal of respect, and I believe Tolkien represented that template in Arwen.
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SilverMoonLady



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Viv wrote:
She wasn't a warrior-princess at all, at least not in the book. Yes, she could have made the trip. And it might have been entertaining. But her character would have been irrevocably changed.

Arwen in LoTR is the symbol of a warrior's wife. As someone else on this thread mentioned, her faith and love are constant. She endures the unknown with stoic patience, even when most gals would be ripping their hair out or mounting up and riding off just to ease their nerves.

Of old, a soldier's wife was a special kind of woman and commanded a great deal of respect, and I believe Tolkien represented that template in Arwen.


Thank you for the historical context that informs the emotional feeling I had on that! Smile
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sindohte



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nicely said Viv. The only thing that I would add is that Eowyn serves as the other side of the coin. She too yearns to stand beside her man, but she would rather do so fighting next to him on the battlefield. I think the cultural differences between Eowyn and Arwen played a big role in the shaping of their characters. And that doesn't even include the profound impact of what happened to Arwen's mother in shaping her personality and some of her life choices.
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