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OotP movie and Deathly Hallows book discussion (SPOILERS)

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Viv
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:50 pm    Post subject: OotP movie and Deathly Hallows book discussion (SPOILERS) Reply with quote

Since the OotP movie and DH book came out at roughly the same time, why not discuss them on the same thread. Is there already a thread doing this? Did I miss it?

My thoughts:

Harry finally became a hero.

Hiding out on the lam is really, really boring and occassionally cold.

Dobby! On the other hand, his second cousin Kreacher sure came into his own.

Draco's kid is named Scorpius? You figure Ms Rowling every saw an episode of "Farscape"? Was she thinking what I was thinking, then: Hooray for Malfoys in Black Leather?

Snape, I'd love you to bits if you didn't remind me so much of parts of my own awkward childhood. Sniffle.
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Viv
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and OotP movie has solidified a deep and abiding hot!smokin!lurve for Gary Oldman's Sirius Black. Just, YUM.
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NancyBrooke
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

O Viv, I am so glad you started this thread!!

Haven't seen OoTP yet (hope to this week), but finished DH a week ago tomorrow.

I really enjoyed reading it, but, in retrospect, feel like JKR kind of got caught in that inevitable web of - O My God! I've finished it!! - with too much emphasis on action and not quite enough on feelings, let alone quite integrating the two.

When I think about the penultimate ending -- the defeat of Voldemort, the tally of the dead, Harry's quiet time with Ron and Hermione -- It all seems a little bit flat and disjointed. I wish more had been said of Draco and his realization of his part of things, of Narcissa's true and focused allegiance (on Draco and Lucius, not on Voldemort), and on what Lucius was doing through it all; I wanted my feelings of loss for Lupin, Tonks, and Fred (or was it George? Wink Confused ) to be echoed in the narrative, and I wanted more feelings to be experienced at the time of the actions.

I am interested, though, that JKR seems to have been giving us red herrings all along mixed up with her true hints. I want to go back over the Leaky Cauldron's list of questions folks expected ot be answered in this book and see if they all were.

Well, whatever my overly-questioning mind might say, I am glad to have read it, I enjoyed every minute of those several peaceful hours, and I am looking forward to returning to Harry's world in a dark movie theater really soon.

Cheers,

NB

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Haleth



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finished the book late Monday night or very early Tuesday morning, depending on how you look at these things.

Major spoilers ahead.










She really didn't stint on killing her characters. The body count was surprisingly high, especially in the early chapters.

She also dropped a lot of red herrings. Between the poem at the beginning and Snape's comment to the Death Eaters that his source inside the Order of the Phoenix informed him when they were moving Harry, I was sure there was another traitor in the good guys' midst. I spent half the book trying to figure out who it was suspecting Mundungus, Molly Weasley and, at one point, even Ron.

One of the things that really struck me about these books is the important rolls played by the mothers. Mothers tend to be revered but remain pretty much behind the scenes in this genre. Usually their roles are limited to keeping the home fires burning, cooking good meals and telling the heroes to look both ways before they cross the street. But they played a much larger role in these books. Lily's sacrifice set the entire series of events into motion. Molly's ferocity in protecting Ginny led to Voldemort's complete demoralization. (Which was perfectly natural. No one worries about coming between a father bear and his cubs.) And it was Narcissa's decision to put her child before her own desire for power (although she hadlost all illusions about that long before this point) that gave Harry the chance he needed to defeat Voldemort.

And Snape. Poor, luckless Snape. His story was so poignant. He's my favourite character, even if he does have an aversion to shampoo.

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NancyBrooke
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haleth wrote:
One of the things that really struck me about these books is the important rolls played by the mothers.

I absolutely agree. One (or two ... ) of the things that especially pleased me about this book was how the 'minor' characters were treated each as a hero in his/her own right. Molly, who has spent so much time working behind the scenes and worrying about her family gets her day with Bellatrix, that great destroyer of families, and Neville Longbottom (for whom I've always had a soft spot) shows his "true Griffindor" colors by pulling the sword out of the Sorting Hat! I wanted to stand up and cheer ...

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Haleth



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JKR has a real flair for creating three dimensional secondary characters. Love them (Neville) or hate them (Umbridge), they really add a lot of depth to the books.

Neville's really come into his own in the past few books. Even his grandmother admitted she was proud of him.

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eiranae
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kretcher and Dobby struck me the most. I cried when I read the part about Dobby being stabbed, and my husband had to take over from there (we were reading aloud to each other). I practically shouted "you go Kretcher" when he led the house elves into the battle.

The Snape story was wonderful.

The epilogue left me wishing for more, and I agree there could have been more feeling put into the post battle scenes. It seemed sort of rushed at that part.

All in all, I loved the series, and I'm sad that it's finally over.
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Alassante
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There hasn't been a lot of comments about the movie so I thought I'd chime in. I saw it Saturday and loved it. Last movie bored me to tears and I had to watch it three times to get what the hell was going on. I mean - I would lose interest to the point of getting lost and therefore had no clue what was happening. Needless to say I was a little leary going into this movie.

SPOILERS -

First thought - I was glad that it was more dark and angsty than the others. Its finally getting to the more mature/adult movie than the previous ones although part 4 was pretty dark.

Second - Agree with Viv - Adored Sirius even more and really am sad that he won't be in the future movies (unless the pull star wars like visions of him or Harry sees him in the mirror like his parents)

Third - The lady in the pink (Umbridge) was scary. Umbridge was like a Mary Kay lady on crack. Shocked Maybe its just me but anyone wearing that much pink has to be a bad guy in my opinion.

Fourth - two new characters I loved were Luna Lovegood and Bellatrix Lestrange. Total opposites I know but Luna was just so insightful while appearing as if she were a space cadet. I liked her 'head in the clouds' attitude that still managed to offer good advice and help out the team. Bellatrix Lestrange kicked ass as a insane, dark magic witch. (although I read on Wikipedia that she was a female death eater?) Either way - she made a kickass bad guy...er...girl.

Fifth - I'm glad that Harry is feeling his dark side a bit. I mean not many people could go through all that he has and not be a little angry. Its good that they finally showed him as a 3-d person who was rightfully pissed about what he had gone through. Also glad that the school no longer worships him to such a high degree. Its nice that they protect him in the first movies but he's been at Hogwarts for years now and has shown them that he's a strong person - emotionally and magically - so its time they stop coddling him so much. In every movie he's forced to defend himself - yet they act as if he cannot do that.

Sixth - the final battle in the Department of Mysteries kicked ass but I was so pissed that Sirius got killed though. I mean seriously. All the cool guys die it seems. I thought it was wicked cool that we got to see Dumbledore fight too - like seeing Yoda finally fight in Star Wars. I was a little surprised that Hagrid and Professor McGonagall not involved in that battle though. And when Harry told Snape about Sirius (in code) and Snape said he had no idea what he was talking about - I thought he was trying to cover for Harry and in the end, he would act on it. They never mentioned him again however so I wonder now if he wasn't the one that warned Dumbledore? Or did he actually not do anything about Harry's warning about Sirius? Did I miss something that was in the book? Snape always ends up being a 'good guy' despite appearing as a bad guy. It was interesting to get a glimpse of WHY he hated Harry (because of Harry's father's treatment of him in the past) and good to see that while Harry's parents were good - they weren't perfect and at times had their own mean moments.


I've finally started reading the books but I started with book 2 instead of 1 because I couldnt' find a copy of 1 without buying a new one (my mom and son have the whole series but both cannot find book 1 lol) I have a question that maybe you HP fanatics can answer. In book two they are talking alot about mudbloods/muggles. Isn't Harry a mudblood as well? Wasn't his mother from a non-magical family? Or does that just make her a mudblood and he's fullblood? What exactly is the reason why Harry keeps staying with his aunt and uncle rather than staying with the Weasley's, Sirius, or someone else who actually wants him and can help him stay safe rather than being treated like a dog?

All in all - I loved the movie and will be glad to buy the DVD when its released. It was worth going to see it in the theatre (something I try to save for the best of the movies)

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sofia



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I was on vacation when both the movie and book came out, I saw/read them a couple weeks after everyone else. (And man did I not want to wait!) beware of SPOILERS********

movie-- Loved it. The acting improved a lot and I just love Sirius! Gary Oldman isn't my mind's picture of him but he played the part well. My only complaint about the movie is that it seemed too fast paced to me. It didn't have any of the calmer moments all the other movies had.

book- Deathly Hallows was utter brilliance. I loved it. There was definitely a lull when they were in the woods for all that time and now that you guys have mentioned it, she did skim over the emotions and stuff after the battle, which would of made all the deaths (Nancy, it was Fred) more poignant. But it was very good and I'm in the process of rereading it.
The part that really got to me though was when Harry's going to meet Voldemort in the forest and he's thinking on how he has to die, and how he uses the stone to get his parents, Sirius, and Lupin back. This was the only part where I cried.
Snape's memories was a highlight in the book, I look foreword to seeing it in the DH movie. Neville is such a hero, and so is Luna, and they certainly came into their own in this book. I was a bit surprised on how little Ginny was featured in the book though. I would of thought that because she and Harry are in love with each other, she would be featured more.
Alassante In the books they do mention how Snape pretended not to understand the code Harry said, but he does act on it, for he's the one who alerts the Order members at Sirius' house about what Harry said and how they might be going to the Ministry. So thats why Tonks, Lupin, Mad Eye, Kingsley, and Sirius go to the ministry- they were the ones at the house. and McGonagall wasn't in the battle at the ministry because she was at the school and I guess Snape didn't have time to alert her. Hagrid was in hiding after Umbridge tried to sack him (can't quite remember if this came through in the movie).
As for your question, I'm sure others can answer you with a more knowledgeable answer, but I'll take a shot at it. A mudblood is a wizard or witch who is born to non magical parents. Although Harry's mother, Lily was a mudblood,(nicer word being muggle-born) Harry's father, James, was a pure blood, which would make Harry a half-blood.
Harry keeps staying with his aunt and uncle because his mother's protection kept him safe there and as long as he could call that house 'home' the protection would continue until he was an 17, an adult, or he no longer called that house 'home'. Of course the Weasley's and everyone want him to stay with them, but they understand about the protection. Of course, Harry doesn't have to stay at his aunt and uncle's the entire summer. He stays there for a month or so to insure that the protection continues and then goes over to the weasley's house for the rest of the summer.
I don't believe thats as informative as you would like, so other HP fans- feel free to correct and add. [/b]

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NeumeIndil



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Movie first: Enjoyed it. I can see why they changed some of what they changed, but there were still a lot of points during the film when I yelped about "that's not what happened!". I do that with every novel-based movie, though, so I wasn't horribly pissed off. It's just... what Hollywood has to do.

Now then. Did anybody else "ruin" the last book for themselves by figuring out Snape's big secret before it was officially revealed?

SPOILERS FOLLOW
As far back as book 1 or so, I found myself trying to figure out why Snape hated Harry so much, and that curiosity only grew as Harry proved he didn't have the cruel streak his father did. The only explanation that made sense to me was if Snape was jealous of James as well as hating him for being a bully, and if Lily was really as kind and pretty as everyone said... It just made sense to me that Snape, who never married, never seemed to fancy any other women and was eventually drawn to the dark side yet some how pulled away from it, had a thing for Lily Evans.

With all that in mind, the end of the last book let me down a little. The focus seemed to be on the vindication of Snape and little attention was paid to everyone else. I found myself saying, "Okay, yeah, I got that he was in love with her ages ago. What about the Malfoys? What about Harry and Ginny reconciling? Does Hermione reconnect with her parents?" The epilogue felt tacked on at the end as an attempt to tie things up, but all it leaves is a sour taste in my mouth. Yes we have names for their children and know that someone else passes on in those 19 years, but there's still a lot more to be figured out. It feels almost as though there should be another chapter between the last and the epilogue, some few months down the road from the final battle, that ties things up a bit better than the sudden jump in time does.

What I liked: How the peripheral characters came to the fore. I mean the house elves and the centaurs and the other kids at the school forming a resistance movement. Heck, I was even pleased to see Crabbe and Goyle act on their own, as hideous as the outcome of those actions could have been. The victory in this book really was a team effort, whereas earlier on in the series Harry's pure dumb luck and brass ones saved the day more often than not.

I also loved how motherhood was emphasized so frequently, if subtly at first (Tonks for example, and I love that wee Teddy got his mother's hair!). McGonigle, I think, really shone in this book too, though she is of course not a mother in the typical sense. She is, in a way, the closest thing Harry had to a mother at school (as "house mother"), and she, like Molly Weasley and Nymphadora Tonks-Lupin and even Narcissa Malfoy, did whatever it took to defend their respective charges and try to make the world a safer place for them. I guess I just love it when women kick ass and take names. Very Happy Fleur comes out of this book looking much better than she has in the previous ones as well. Gone is the snooty French girl and in her place is an all-round decent person, and a very patient one besides.

And how about that time frame finally being established? It never occurred to me, EVER, that Harry and Ron and Hermione etc. would be the same age I am. (If you follow the dates on James' and Lily's headstone, they died in Dec. 1981, when Harry was 16 mo. old, meaning his birth date is the end of July 1980. In our time, he'd have just turned 27.) I'd always figured they'd either never be established within the Muggle history specifically or that they'd come some time in the future.

Over all I liked the book more than I disliked it, but I'm just not quite as satisfied with the end as I'd hoped to be. Guess that's where the fan fic will pick up. Smile

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vladazhael



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, just finally let myself look at this thread, because I just finished DH this morning. (Instead of taking a shower, because dammit, I have my priorities.) Actually, I just read all 7 books for the first time right in a row after finally getting interested enough to do so once I saw the new movie. Now I have no idea what to do with myself other than hang around this thread, so here goes:

Movie first, because I saw it first -
Loved it. I know they had to cut out or modify bits and pieces, because it was a long book with a lot of detail, and I'm fine with that. Different medium, different needs. I think they made it work just fine.
I knew Sirius was going to die, because I let someone tell me back before I really cared about knowing ahead of time what was going to happen. It probably didn't have as much emotional impact as it should have because of that, but that's my own fault. Plus on the first viewing I was busy trying to pop my eyes back into my head at that point, because it was near the end of the 20-minute IMAX 3D sequence that nearly caused a permanent rearrangement of my visual cortex. (Although watching Lucius Malfoy stroll menacingly out at me was not remotely unpleasant. Wink )
Speaking of eyes - Moody! Seriously, could he be any cooler? That thing during the Ministry battle where a Death Eater was rushing him and he just banged his staff on the ground and blasted the guy out of the way - supreme bad-assery. Priceless.
Also, and perhaps most importantly, Luna is a trip, and I absolutely adore her. It's almost unholy. I don't even have the words in mind to properly describe it, but I can say that not every character inspires a new hairstyle.
I think that about covers it.

Now, the book:
Maybe it's just the rush of finally satisfying my curiosity, but I can't say I have any problem at all with how Rowling pulled it all off. The emotional involvement that many others said they found lacking was just enough for my taste - which I'll be the first to admit is usually on the "less is more" side, so maybe it really is just a matter of taste and nothing more; I don't know. But it works in my favor, I suppose. Overall, no quarrel with the ending.
I liked how every character came into their own, with special praise for Molly Weasley and Professor McGonagall bringing the maternal archetype out of the kitchen and into the heat of battle. In fact, I can't think of an example in the whole series when I was dissatified with Rowling's use of gender roles, and since I can't even watch a peanut butter commercial without twitching with feminist rage, that's a pretty impressive feat. (I like you guys, so I'll spare you my "Choosy moms choose Jif" rant.)
On the death toll... ouch. Was glad to see Hagrid pull through, since it seemed otherwise no less than twice. Fred wasn't a surprise, because I accidentally stumbled on a family tree online that led me to the conclusion that only one of the twins would survive, but that's still quite hard to take, as was Moody's demise. I don't like it when the fun ones die. Lupin and Tonks hit me the hardest, though, both because I liked them (especially Lupin) and because Harry, and consequently I, discovered it so incidentally. I wonder how long I have to wait on the plot spoiler statute of limitations before I can make myself a T-shirt that says "LUPIN LIVES!"... Anyway, I knew some people would have to meet their ends, and I'm content with how all of them were handled.
In the last two books I was very glad to see Ginny develop as an important character. I never really expected her to turn out so tough and confident based on who she was at the beginning, but I'm very pleased to have been proven wrong. I don't tend to see people so self-assured in my daily life, let alone in literature, and it's a refreshing change from the plethora of insecurities I've grown to expect from the female side of any popularized romantic relationship.
The epilogue was fluff, but not in a bad way. I think this is one of the few storylines where a flash forward to the next generation of children was actually warranted, rather than just a smarmy way to make sure the reader knows that life is perfect again. So much of the rest of the story was about what happened to different generations placed in the same situation that it would have seemed almost unfair not to tack on that little glimpse at the end. Plus that bit is just full of plot bunnies, and whether or not Rowling knew what kind of gift she was giving to fanfic writers everywhere, I thank her for it. Cool

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Alassante
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vladazhael wrote:
Also, and perhaps most importantly, Luna is a trip, and I absolutely adore her. It's almost unholy. I don't even have the words in mind to properly describe it, but I can say that not every character inspires a new hairstyle.
I think that about covers it.


You now have a Luna hairstyle? Shocked

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vladazhael



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never quite pulled it off, what with not being even remotely blonde, but yeah, it was a lot like hers for a while. This weekend I cut a little bit more off the ends, though, so now it looks Ginny-ish, if there's still any resemblance to anyone at all. Razz
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Alassante
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FINALLY I have finished all of the books. I never even started reading them until after I became obsessed with the last movie so I had a delayed response (much like I did with LOTR). The Order of the Phoenix was such an awesome movie that I had to read the books. It was the first one that seemed more adult than teen although I think PofA was starting down that path. The fourth movie was to me a total failure if you hadn't read the books. After I read that book and went back and watched the movie - it made sense but they left out just enough in the movie that it was totally confusing.

I personally think that she would have done a better job on the last two books if she had not tried to keep them as the standard year and added more to the Half Blood Prince so she could have spent a lot more time in DH focusing on the final battle. I just finished it and feel I need to go back and re-read alot of it because I just can't remember. The chapters prior to that dragged but then she shoved the same amount of action of the previous about 15 chapters into about 4 chapters (I'm guessimating on the number of chapters here because I don't have the book in front of me) The action from the time they re-enter Hogwarts until the end of the book (except the epilogue) was so rushed and intense, it was frustrating. Like Nancy I wanted more emotions. Harry had plenty of emotions when he was stuck in the woods pissed off at Dumbledore and Ron. He had a few minor emotions about Fred but he was more upset about Dobby than he was about Lupin. I think JK was so thrilled to almost be finished, she didn't expand enough on that. I'm pretty sure they will do it more intensely in the movies because I cannot imagine they will spend alot of their focus on the time in the woods. I was also thrilled that the females took a bigger part this time. Most of the time Hermoine was the quicker thinker when they were attacked and got them out of more things than Harry did. She also was the one that remained calm when Harry would react impulsively. I have always liked Ginny but since she was the only other one possessed by Voldemort (or Tom Riddle at the time) and lived to tell the tale that should have been a clear sign to everyone that she was a very strong witch.

I think that there needs to be one more book to deal with after the battle. I mean they need to rebuild the ministry, Hogwarts needs some changes based on who lived and died. What about Harry dealing with the guilt he will surely feel about who died to protect him or because of him? Granted it was all for 'the greater good' of destroying Voldomort but I'm sure he had to deal with some guilt. Also - did he and Ginny raise Teddy since he was an orphan and he was the godfather or did the grandmother raise him? How did the Malfoys deal with their evil deeds? What about Ron and Hermoine? Bill and Fleur? etc etc There was alot left unsaid/undone so it would be nice to see a book to talk about that but I'm sure we'll never get it.

I'm still not a Snape fan. Even though I felt his story was sad and he did redeem himself in the end, he was so mean throughout everything its hard to like him for me. Like Rowling said, he's the anti-hero.

I greatly enjoyed the books and wish I had read them sooner but I think I would still feel this sense of sadness that there isn't another. I'm hoping that I can help satisfy this with some decently written fanfiction. Very Happy

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