Login

Lost Password?

Create New Account

Minas Tirith and Osgiliath

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Leila



Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 0
Location: the Pegasus Galaxy

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:51 pm    Post subject: Minas Tirith and Osgiliath Reply with quote

Where could i find info on those two cities? I'm not looking for information about the people, just the cities themselves. Any age of Middle Earth.
_________________
A Drabble A Day Keeps The Bunnies At Bay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
BittenBuggy



Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 2108
Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Twiddles her thumbs and waits for the PMF*

It wasn't me

_________________
-The Queen of Everything - so dubed by Aerin

-"My ultimate fantasy is to entice a man to my bedroom, put a gun to his head and say, 'Make babies or die'."

-"The Pope! how many divisions has he got?" - Stalin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
NancyBrooke
Challenge Admin


Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 160
Location: In a motel 6 by the airport

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, BB; I'll handle this (pushes BB aside). This is no job for amateurs.

Okay, PMF on duty -

The most information about Osgiliath, that I know of, is in the Appendices to the Trilogy (and my brain Wink ). MT is most clearly described at the start of the Chapter "Minas Tirith" which begins ROTK.

I've also found Karen Wynn Fondstat's "Atlas of Middle Earth" is also helpful as a secondary resource. There are also some websites that might be helpful; I'll post links later.

There's also a 'featurette' on MT on the Official movie website and, I gather, attached to the Theatrical Release DVD of ROTK. That, at least, if visually inspiring.

If you have any specific questions, lemme know, I pretend this is my area of expertise.

NB

PS: If there was info in the Histories of Middle Earth or Unfinished Tales I'm afraid I wouldn't know.

_________________
NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering

Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Leila



Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 0
Location: the Pegasus Galaxy

PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about the Great Plague?
_________________
A Drabble A Day Keeps The Bunnies At Bay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
NancyBrooke
Challenge Admin


Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 160
Location: In a motel 6 by the airport

PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know of any info on the plague other than what's in the appendices ... sorry!

What were you wondering about?

_________________
NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering

Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NancyBrooke
Challenge Admin


Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 160
Location: In a motel 6 by the airport

PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, you got me - compulsive question-answerer that I am:

Here are a couple of interesting articles:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/58674

http://www.tuckborough.net/ithilien.html


There's a lot that can be inferred from the small body of knowledge there is about Osgiliath.

It was probably the first major city in Gondor, and for a long time remained Capital. It lay between the eventually established cities of Minas Ithil, to the East, stronghold of Isildur, and Minas Anor to the West, Stronghold of Anarion. They probably considered Osgiliath 'middle ground.'

When Sauron takes Minas Ithil, then, Isildur and his family flee to the North (Arnor and Elendil), leaving Osgiliath and Minas Anor for Anarion. In fact, it is established during the Kin-strife that Gondor assumes from that point that Isildur (and by extension his heirs) has relinquished his claim on Kingship of Gondor.

Osgiliath was a great city, grown from a site already established by Numenoreans before the Fall as a sea landing. It extended to both sides of the Anduin and was the most northern point on that river to which one could sail because of the Falls of Rauros. So if you were sailing up from the sea to get to pretty much any other part of Middle Earth you would have wanted to go to Osgiliath. In its center was the Dome of Osgiliath and the great stone bridge. There were also a bunch of other bridges, kind of like Paris or Venice I imagine. It obviously had military importance, but also must have had political importance to continue to shelter a Palantir.

This is what I glean from the appendices:

There were three main events which contributed to its becoming deserted.

In 1437 Third age there was civil war in Gondor, the “Kin-Strife.” Osgiliath was besieged and burned, the Tower of the Dome of Osgiliath was destroyed and the Palantir 'lost' (presumably in the river). Then, in 1636-40, there was a plague which killed "great numbers, especially those that lived in Osgiliath." It also killed the King of Gondor and his family so his nephew Tarondor moved the King's House permanently to Minas Anor (later Minas Tirith), as Osgiliath was "now partly deserted, and began to fall into ruin."

Lastly, much later, in 2475, Osgiliath and Ithilien were overrun by black orcs out of Mordor. Boromir son of Denethor I (after whom the LOTR Boromir was named) "defeated them and regained Ithilien; but Osgiliath was finally ruined, and its great stone-bridge was finally broken. No people dwelt there afterwards."

I think it remained in the Gondorian imagination, like Minas Ithil, as symbol of lost greatness, a beautiful thing they had not only created but destroyed. So nearby I think it loomed large in their collective psyche.

More than you wanted to know? Oh well! Laughing

N

_________________
NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering

Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeumeIndil



Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 1091
Location: New York, USA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NancyBrooke wrote:
Osgiliath was a great city, grown from a site already established by Numenoreans before the Fall as a sea landing. It extended to both sides of the Anduin and was the most northern point on that river to which one could sail because of the Falls of Rauros. So if you were sailing up from the sea to get to pretty much any other part of Middle Earth you would have wanted to go to Osgiliath.


Okay, my question has something to do with Osgiliath and travel times. I've found the approximate distance between Osgiliath and Cair Andros is generally thought to be about 30 miles. I'm trying to decipher the travel time for the return to Osgiliath after the Battle of the Morannon. Any clue how quick the river was in that stretch? I know it was quite fast above Rauros and slowed when it joined the Entwash above Cair Andros, but after that I'm having trouble getting specifics. We know it was navigable by ship north of Osgiliath: "But at last when the month of May was drawing near the Captains of the West set out again; and they went aboard ship with all their men and they sailed from Cair Andros down Anduin to Osgiliath..." RotK, ch. IV, The Field of Cormallen, which means it had to be at least deep enough to let a sea-going vessel into the channel. Is there anything in HoME or any other sources that addresses this?

_________________
An Infinite Source of Pervy Wisdom.

http://embullybreedrescue.org/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
ghettoelleth



Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 1804

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are pages and pages in Treason of Isengard, look under Anduin and Cair Andros but also if you look up Tol Varad and some of the other earlier names you can get more information. Also check, 'The Delta' and Ether Anduin as well as, 'The Great River'

If I'm not mistaken, time of year would have a great deal to do with navigablity as well. Spring being the best barring the waters being to swift to navigate safely. Vana might know a bit about this, in The Trees Remember, she compares a scene in which Haldir had to cross rushing water to his ability to maneuver in the Anduin so I know she would have researched that. Though the area she mentioned is well north, she may have come across something to help.

Edit: Sorry, that was the War of the Ring, not Treason of Isengard

_________________
"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can not confirm their validity." Abraham Lincoln
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
NeumeIndil



Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 1091
Location: New York, USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great. Thanks a heap. Now one of these days I'll remember to reply to replies. Naughty!!! Magician Cry

Sorry for the lag!
Neu

_________________
An Infinite Source of Pervy Wisdom.

http://embullybreedrescue.org/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum