Reviews by AngmarAndElfhild

The Circles: Book One: The Triumph of The Shadow · Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:21 pm

Aganuzir said
> Aganuzîr accepts the cup reverently on bended knee and drinks deeply from it.
>
> “Aarsh Tor Satum-ob, O Ash Bubhosh, Shakh Dushgoi-ob!”

Narnûlublat kulug-ûr krampûrz, narish Mordor-ob.

Thank you for being loyal, friend of Mordor.

It will not be forgotten.

The Circles: Book One: The Triumph of The Shadow · Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:56 pm

Aganuzir said
> The Age of Sauron has begun, Darkness unescapable is on us!
>Congratulations to the authors of the Second Darkness for its
>first birthday on the web!
>Many happy returns of the day!
>Your faithful reader toasts you with a goblet of Dushûrz-Gabhîk,
>the glowing green wine.
>To you, Angmar and Elfhild!

We join with you, O Aganuzîr, most loyal of friends and allies, in raising our goblets high, first in allegiance, our fealty sworn to the Darkness Unescapable.

Gaakh Mordor agh Burzûm nau narkû!
(May Mordor and Darkness never end)

Truly 'tis an occasion of great rejoicing, this commemoration of the first year of Second Darkness on the web. Which such staunch friends such as you, Aganuzîr, there will be no end.

Elfhild offers the cup of Dushûrz-Gabhîk to her lord, saying, "Receive now this cup and drink in happy hour. Health be with thee at thy coming and going, and may the Darkness that rules All never end," and after her dark master has drunk of the cup, she then offers it to Aganuzîr.

Angmar and Elfhild

The Circles: Book One: The Triumph of The Shadow · Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:28 pm

Aganuzîr,

Elfhild and I thank you most kindly for your remarks, and your excellent suggestions. A wargamer for many years, I have some experience in describing battles. Perhaps now all those game losses had a purpose after all. Smile smiley face

We are glad to be of help to you in explaining the meaning of your name. I have a fondness for Adûnaic and find it a pity there are so few words in the vocabulary. Black Speech, however, has fared better than Adûnaic in that regard. Several years ago an effort was made for the benefit of reenactors and those interested to fill in some of the gaps with words taken from Elvish and other languages which followed linguistic rules. Wish that someone would do the same for Adûnaic.

Your research on the word "beard" was indeed fascinating. I have used logic in trying to fathom genetically beardless vs. beards among the Númenóreans. The royal line, the line beginning with Elros, would be beardless, I would say. The kings, however, would have to choose from wives of other families, and the three houses of the Edain are combined in the background of the Númenóreans. There, I believe, could come the genetic traits for beards. The king at the Crossroads (I agree with you that it probably was Isildur) is bearded.

Angmar of SD and the Circles has long, dark hair but tinged with gray. I have tended to think of him as bearded, though, probably because I am bearded and I am prejudiced. Your idea of being vague there in the story is a good one, but there is a scene already written somewhere way down the line in chapter twenty something where Angmar does have a beard, neat and trim. I must think upon your ideas.

Regarding a shaving custom among bearded Númenóreans, here is an interesting comment from Tolkien: "The Númenóreans of Gondor were proud, peculiar and archaic and I think are best pictured in (say) Egyptian terms. In many ways they resembled 'Egyptians' - the love of, and power to construct, the gigantic and massive. And their great interest in ancestry and in tombs." - Letter #211, Tolkien Letters, p. 281.

There is an interesting comment about the crown of Gondor in this same letter along with a sketch by Tolkien that reflects Tolkien's view of the Númenóreans as like the ancient Egyptians. "I think the crown of Gondor (the S. Kingdom) was very tall, like that of Egypt, but with wings attached, not set straight back but at an angle. The N. Kingdom had only a diadem (III 323). Cf. the difference between the N. and S. kingdoms of Egypt." Here, Tolkien is using the example of the Egyptian combined crown of the kingdoms of Upper and Lower Egypt.

Since the ancient Egyptians, both men and women, shaved both their heads and bodies, and Tolkien was using these people as somewhat of a model, I think your idea of the practice of shaving the face when the Elves were in favor and possibly not shaving when they were out of favor is a very good theory. This makes logical sense and gives flavor to a vague time in which Tolkien only hinted.

Now that still leaves the question of Angmar, bearded or unbearded. Hmm... *strokes beard and ponders.*

Best wishes to you, Aganuzîr, and I hope we will provide you and others with continuing adventure and exploring the vague elements of Tolkien.

Angmar and Elfhild

The Circles: Book One: The Triumph of The Shadow · Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:40 pm

Aganuzîr,

Elfhild and I enjoy responding to your posts. Anytime you have questions about either SD or The Circles, just ask.

We ignore Jackson's films. All considerations are derived from the source - Tolkien's works - not PJ's films.

>Actually, being a "great lord of Númenórean race" he must
>have been Elven-fair when mortal.

Yes, the Witch-king must have been handsome because of his Númenórean ancestry. I have seen sketches in which he is depicted as beardless with striking Elvish features.

Is the Angmar in The Circles bearded or beardless? He had one in SD and he is in no mood to shave at this late date. Smile smiley face

The ancestry of Erendis, the wife of Aldarion (the canon one), is mixed with Númenórean blood and that of "Lesser Men." So is the Angmar of SD and The Circles, and this mixed ancestry accounts for the fact he has a beard. (Research for these stories was done in both the archives of LOTR and UT. However, when there is reference to the kings of Númenor, UT is preferred because of some of the difficult, confusing discrepancies between the archives of LOTR and UT.)

>It seems to me that Tolkien first conceived the nazgul
>to be shape-shifters. In the first drafts of the Gaffer's
>encounter with a nazgul the latter looked like a hobbit!

Yes, they certainly appeared to be shapeshifters in Tolkien's early writings. When reading HOME, one can see Tolkien's continually evolving ideas about them. The whole topic of "The Many Deaths of Éowyn and Angmar" sheds light on how Tolkien logically thought these characters out. You can almost see his mind at work in his notes. Here is an interesting quote on the topic of shapeshifting:

"The Gap of Gorgoroth not far from Fire Mountain. There are Orc guard-towers on either side of Gorgoroth. They see a host of evil led by Black Riders. Gollum betrays Frodo. He is beaten off, but escapes shrieking to the Black Riders. The Black Riders now have taken form of demonic eagles and fly before host, or [?take eagle-like] vulture birds as steeds." - "The Story Foreseen from Moria," The Treason of Isengard, p. 208

Obviously, he finally settled for the latter.

>About Gandalf in SD. I think that Gandalf the Gray was a
>well meaning wizard, but not exactly a god-like creature
>as Gandalf the White. He made lots of mistakes. Perhaps,
>out of kindness, he wanted to cure Madurz both of her love
>and her memories, but failed in the latter?

This was the original concept - Gandalf's well-meaning act of kindness that went slightly amiss. This matter is still under lively discussion. Somehow I would like to tie The Circles to SD. I think I am now on "Version D" of the topic. Smile smiley face

After over a year, I thought that all possibilities had been examined, but yet more have been brought up.

>I would think so, considering that my name was inspired
>more by your writings than by the Notion Club Papers…
>I know "Agan" is death, but I am still not sure what "uzîr"
>means. Can you help me?

Thank you. I feel greatly flattered. "Agan" is "death." "Zir" (with no accent on the "i") means "love" or "desire," and the suffix "-zîr" means "lover." (Example - Nimruzîr, "Elf lover," the name for Elendil.) The "u" might refer to case, but I am uncertain since Adûnaic is far from complete and quite difficult. In any event, I think yours is quite a lyrical name. Again, I am quite flattered, and thank you for your kind remarks.

The Circles: Book One: The Triumph of The Shadow · Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:20 am

Aganuzir,

I have gotten into endless online discussions of what the Nazgûl are - invisible, perfectly preserved men (which is what I go by); walking perpetually rotting corpses; dust or vapors trapped in magical clothing; or mindless zombie-like robots. At least one person thought that the possibility of Nazgûl having any affectionate feelings towards women was "disturbing," and that person thought even less of Nazgûl having sex. This was very discouraging.

I have thought long and hard about Gandalf in SD. Gandalf is what would be considered a powerful "machine" and must be used sparingly and not just come in one time as a plot device at the "right moment." When SD began, Gandalf was portrayed by a person (no longer with the project) who basically had him strip Mâdûrz of her love for Aldarion but not her memories. That is a cruel thing to have done to her and does not seem to fit with Gandalf's character. Filling in the details with Gandalf's meeting Mâdûrz is still under deliberation for these reasons. In The Circles, the story of how Khamûl and Mâdûrz first encountered each other might be somewhat different, but everything else will be as it is in SD.

Thank you so much for taking an interest in SD and The Circles. Please feel free to ask any questions of either Elfhild or me.

By the way, I believe I have translated your name from Adûnaic and understand its meaning. Smile smiley face

The Circles: Book One: The Triumph of The Shadow · Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:41 am

Aganuzir said
> I am enchanted by your story. It is so beautifully written and so well researched.
>I am your old fan, I have read all the Second Darcness stories (do you really NEED to close the project?) and now I am reading the Circles. I know there will be more wonders to read.

We are very glad that you came out of "lurkerdom" to comment on both Second Darkness and The Circles. We thank you most sincerely and appreciate your comments. It is fans like you that make us want to continue. In the past, some people have disliked our stories and portrayals of the Nazgûl, but good words are like a soothing balm to wounded pelts.

Second Darkness does not HAVE to close but we are currently putting the majority of our time and effort into The Circles. SD is live action roleplay and is therefore much freer than a novel-length story. Don't worry, however, SD will continue but at a slower pace.

Thank you again and thanks for your continuing loyalty to SD. Last I talked to Elfhild, she was doing somersaults. Below will be her comments.

Angmar

***
Wow! A Second Darkness fan! I am so thrilled. The story of Elfhild and Elffled will mimic those old plotlines of SD but the story will be much different this time around with a greater level of depth and maturity. Certain small details have changed, such as the ages of the twins (originally they were 20 not 16), for more time will elapse between key events in The Circles than it did in Second Darkness.

So... being a fan of SD, you probably have a good idea of some of the things that will happen in the future, but shhh!! don't tell anyone... no spoilers. Smile smiley face

Thank you so much for the good words. Smile smiley face

Elfhild

The Circles: Book One: The Triumph of The Shadow · Fri May 27, 2005 8:48 pm

Tourniquette said
> Great use of Old English! I studied it a few years back in college, so I could understand what they said. I like the comment about about Dwarves smithying in Elffled's brain. XD I'm suitably depressed now. Thanks a lot. Wink smiley face

Tourniquette,

We must do something to make you happier then. Perhaps the addition of more Old English will remedy the sadness? Smile smiley face

Elfhild wrote and asked me to pass this on, "Thank you for the comment about Old English. I am new to the language and was concerned that my translations would be faulty. Life for the twins still won't even out for quite some time (and chapters) to come. This will be a very long story, and I hope you stay tuned for further updates."

The Circles: Book One: The Triumph of The Shadow · Tue May 24, 2005 3:22 am

Tourniquette said
> As dark as it was, I simply adored this latest chapter. This time, I felt the descriptions completely pull me in, and I could almost taste the haze of burning straw in my mouth. Poor girls. Now I'm dying of suspense!

Tourniquette,

Elfhild wrote and told me she was beaming when she saw your comments and thanks you very much. True, this is a dark story, but dark and light mix together into shades of gray. It will not be smooth sailing ahead for Elfhild and Elffled until.... "...you may find friends upon your way when you least look for it." (Elrond, "The Ring Goes South," FOTR).

The Circles: Book One: The Triumph of The Shadow · Sat May 21, 2005 4:32 pm

SpaceWeavil said
> Since I'm working on a slightly mammoth Witch King story myself at present, I had to have a look at this, and so far I have to say I am really impressed. Your description isn't overbearing or too weighty and yet still provides such an atmosphere. Also I'm very impressed by the amount of research - the Old English alone gave Rohan a real flavour as I was reading. I'm not usually very keen on AU stories, but this one has me interested since it is so well written, and I'm very keen now to see where the story goes.
>
> Welcome to the site and thank you for posting Very Happy smiley face

>
> SpaceWeavil (certified Nazgul lover)

SpaceWeavil, we are glad that you are enjoying the story. We are interested in the one that you are writing. We have found that it takes a tremendous amount of research even before typing up the first page. There are so many Nazgûl quotes in my notes that the file became so ponderously large that I decided to put the information on one of my own sites for others to read: http://www.geocities.com/thequietwraith/nazgulquotes.html Feel free to use any of the information.

Elfhild is neither a linguist nor an expert in Old English, but she has a very keen interest in the subject, while my interest lies in Black Speech. The trouble with this is that there are so few canon words. For this reason, others have used the elements of etymology to derive something that seems reasonable. Black Speech is simple to learn and you can make small conversations, but nothing really deep. I have been trying to phrase a letter that might be sent to a foreign dignitary, but I have not been able to find enough words even to sound semi-literate and thus must rely on Common.

Thank you again for your encouragement.

Angmar and Elfhild

The Circles: Book One: The Triumph of The Shadow · Fri May 20, 2005 3:33 am

Tourniquette said
> Excellent writing. It's almost a bit *too* much like Tolkien for my taste--not enough dialogue and lengthy descriptions. Still, I very much enjoyed the plot line--I'll check back when the update thingie sends me an email. Very Happy smiley face

Tourniquette, thank you very much for your comments. I admit I had a bit of "stage fright" about adding this story but your words made me feel much better. Elfhild is pleased, too, and she wrote this to me after reading your review: "Too much like Tolkien? I take that as a high honor and the greatest of compliments. Thank you very much!"
-Angmar and Elfhild (faandrûk)

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