Reviews for "The virtues of reading the books"

Tue Jul 01, 2003 6:47 am

This is a very interesting essay, and I can tell that you feel very passionately about the subject. I thought I'd go ahead and leave my remarks, as one of those awful "non-readers." I agree with you about the categorization of LOTR in the "book" section of ff.net, but at the same time I'm not inspired by the books, I'm inspired by the film. Not because Legolas is a pretty boy (although Lord knows he IS), but because Peter Jackson made the whole of Middle-Earth come to life for me in a way that repeated attempts to read Tolkien's works didn't. So it's honestly my opinion that there should be a "movie" section for LOTR on fic sites, the way there is here.

And then otherwise, I guess it comes down to what fanfiction MEANS to people. I certainly can see your point of view as a purist, wanting those who write fanfiction to be just as passionate as you are, and devote themselves to thoroughly researching a story before they write it. There's definitely something to be said for knowing what the heck you're talking about when you're writing a story, and I do believe that research is important, don't get me wrong there. I'm writing a novel right now, and there are historic elements to it that I'm working really hard to get right. But that's because I hope to publish this work, and want it to be as perfect as I can make it. Fanfic I write for fun. Something from a film (usually it's a film) sparks my imagination, and I play with the idea, and generally people like it. I'm sure I've broken all kinds of purist-type rules, and if I have I apologize. But at the same time I'm not going to spend months researching a topic so that I can write the perfcect fanfiction story; like I said in an author's note for another fandom's story I wrote: "I'm not making a documentary, I'm writing a fanfic."

And I can't decide on the tone of your essay. Your passion for the subject comes through, despite the occasional misspellings, but your tone is largely derogatory toward those who are not as knowledgeable as you are (threatening flames and telling an author to burn in hell, etc.). But then at the very end you say that it's merely a "constructive criticism," and not meant to be insulting at all. It's hard to have it both ways.

In any case, like I said, it was very interesting reading, and I learned a lot from it.

Tue Jul 01, 2003 9:26 am

I learned lots from this essay. Had no idea one could track down all those languages (I knew about Quenya and sindarin, the ones I see and hear about often, but not the others. Though it's logic, after you think about it.)

Nice to see someone is delving in the canon research. I will point out only that sometimes the idea is rather good (or the author thinks so at leas) and there's something called poetic license. Not that I like the Fair princess from Silverwood either, but there are things that can be done -wisely - and make the story interesting.

If nothing else, you'll get a bit of experience. Everyone of us - And I do mean EVERY ONE - has a story/ couple of stories in the dark deep dungeons of the computer, those few first stories that you would not show anyone else right now but once got all your attention and work.

It's hard, but sometimes we have a pearl in it. Guess we need to warn and councel, but let the paths open for the author's creativity. Who knows.

Other than that, it's was a very enjoyable essay. Nice Job.

Tue Jul 01, 2003 12:04 pm

I LOVE this essay... REALLY. You were firm but not sarcastic and you provided the newbies with helpful information while giving them a clear understanding of why some of these errors can be REALLY grating. We LOVE LOTRs - the whole suite of books... and if we didn't, we wouldn't be reading fanfic. Is it any wonder someone who doesn't seem to respect the environment Tolkien created as much as we do would come across as irritating?

Ariel

Tue Jul 01, 2003 9:19 pm

I don't believe your tone is derogatory because I can understand where you're coming from. Last night I was told of story involving Aragorn, necrophilia, rape, slash and blood play and wanted to know why in the hell someone was writing such a tale when it bears absolutely no resemblance to Aragorn the character. While I have been known to push the envelope and take liberties with the Professor's character, I did so with a modicum of respect to the source material. While I don't take the view of purists that all fan fic must adhere absolutely to what is canon, I do believe you should at least remember why you started writing fan fic about these characters in the first place. Obviously something about them must have impressed you to begin writing in the first place, so why would you completely disregard all those characteristics and infuse them with something so unfamiliar that the character is virtually unrecognisable? I agree with much of what you say, (except the flaming) and believe your essay is relevant to authors who really want to write Tolkien as more than just some fangirl exercise. After all there is a difference between exploring and exploiting the characters and I think your essay has put into perspective some very relevant points. Look forward your next topic and hope to see it here.

Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:45 pm

I love Tolkien essays, and this one is very well-done, with a lot of information. The only thing is, I think you are presenting as canon a few things that are simply your own opinion. But interesting reading all the same.

And, as I have mentioned before, there is nothing wrong with movie-based fanfic. Hard as it is to believe, some people simply don’t like the books, but love the movies, and not just because of all the hot men. I love the books, but even I will admit that the movies are compelling and gripping in a way the books can never be. So snoot movie-verse, if it’s not your thing or if it frustrates you madly, but don’t say it shouldn’t be written, or that it can't be well-written.

Good luck, and I hope to see more from you. -Ell

Wed Jul 02, 2003 6:14 am

*goes off to write her fanfic where Eomer is half-elf and runs off to marry Aragorn's long lost half-elf, half sister.*

LOL, just kidding.

For the most part I very much agree with what you have to say, especially in the first and last parts of your essay. About it being rather easy to find a simple family tree on the web, that it is unlikely there are multiple gay members of the Fellowship, elves being more skilled in combat than men, and most the stuff about dear Mary-Sue.

However, one disagreement I had with your essay were the things you specifically directed at slash authors for doing – elven incest, multiple bed partners, rape, prostitution, slavery, etc. To be fair, percentage wise, I have read the same amount of het fics that do these same things. The first het fic I ever stumbled upon was Haldir raping some woman, the second was Arwen taking Legolas and Aragorn as her ‘pets’.

And I agree with you that Tolkien probably wouldn’t have put homosexuals in his Middle-earth, well, more to the point, I don't think he would have thought about it either way. Since, as you point out, such things were not well looked upon in those days. He probably expected everyone would assume them to be heterosexual. I doubt he ever thought a bunch of people would be playing with his charcters in such a way period.

I appreciated how you cited the vast majority of your information, however, you didn't mention where you got the information about only 4% of men in the world being gay. I'm not saying that you misquoted or are wrong, but I'm curious about the research, what definition of homosexuality they used and such. Since a good portion of men who participate in what would be called homosexual acts, do not consider themselves (nor does their culture consider them) to be homosexual or bisexual, ancient Greece and current day Mexico being prime examples. And there are many tribes where such things are considered a coming of age. But I digress.

As for the bisexuality of elves, most authors I’ve spoken to (several that have read the books) state it that way from the belief that elves are more elevated than humans and don’t care about such things as packaging, are less judgmental. Love is love and all that. And just because it’s not mentioned specifically that Gil-galad or whoever had a male lover, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Even in current days things like that tend to be swept under the proverbial rug. Just because something isn’t approved of, doesn’t mean people don’t do it.

All that aside, I truly am not picking on you, I’m just stating my opinion and I completely understand how aggravating it is to read something and it’s just not right. Every time I see one of these movies where I’ve read the book or the comic before, I’m the jerk that’s pointing out all the flaws. While my friends point out how many stunts do not obey the laws of physics or the historical and medical inaccuracies.

Still, as much as we might wish, fanfic authors are not Tolkien or even Bilbo. Sometimes you just need to suspend your disbelief a little and enjoy the ride.

But, enough of the commentary (and I am so sorry it’s so long, it can be deleted if you like) I really do like your essay and I find it very well written, interesting, informative and nicely researched, which I always appreciate. I totally agree that the writing should be about the characters and settings of Middle-earth, not the pretty boys. And just like everyone else that’s commented, I'm looking forward to your next piece. Smile smiley face

Wed Jul 02, 2003 8:29 pm

Yes, yes, and yes. Can I kiss you now (being merely human, my hroa instincts dominate)? Smile smiley face

Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:59 pm

A rather informative essay, it was intresting. A little nitpick though, in your essay you claim that you have to be homosexual to be in a slash, but really, I don't see it as such at all. You can be perfectly straight and still engage in such activities. I know that in my slash stories, that's how I write them. Homosexuality is a state of mind, not activity. But then, this is my opinion, and everybody is entitled to their own. Nice essay, I will say. *Goes off to ride her ME Unicorn* Wink smiley face

Fri Jul 04, 2003 9:58 pm

I think you've come a long way on this, excellent job. I especially like where you've cited your sources, and that you have allowed for a leetle bit of leeway, and acknowledge that a good writer can come up with plausible reasons for canon tweaking. And though there are as many different opinions about fanfic as there are readers and writers, I think we can all agree that we'd like to see more good stories. You've put a lot of effort into this. Nice work. -Ell

Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:03 am

You have done your homework, which adds more weight to your essay than it might otherwise have. Others have mentioned the topics, such as slash, where opinion overtakes icy composure.

It would be nice to see more stories where the actual plotline & character development are thought through. Most people try. Some succeed. A few don't, though, and that can provide some painful reading.

One final note: the formatting of this is very difficult to read. I normally don't mind the light text on dark background, but when the paragraphs run together, it makes for a wall of almost blinding intensity.

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Reviews for "The virtues of reading the books"