[Leila]

Where could i find info on those two cities? I'm not looking for information about the people, just the cities themselves. Any age of Middle Earth.

[BittenBuggy]

*Twiddles her thumbs and waits for the PMF*

[NancyBrooke]

Thanks, BB; I'll handle this (pushes BB aside). This is no job for amateurs.

Okay, PMF on duty -

The most information about Osgiliath, that I know of, is in the Appendices to the Trilogy (and my brain ). MT is most clearly described at the start of the Chapter "Minas Tirith" which begins ROTK.

I've also found Karen Wynn Fondstat's "Atlas of Middle Earth" is also helpful as a secondary resource. There are also some websites that might be helpful; I'll post links later.

There's also a 'featurette' on MT on the Official movie website and, I gather, attached to the Theatrical Release DVD of ROTK. That, at least, if visually inspiring.

If you have any specific questions, lemme know, I pretend this is my area of expertise.

NB

PS: If there was info in the Histories of Middle Earth or Unfinished Tales I'm afraid I wouldn't know.

[Leila]

What about the Great Plague?

[NancyBrooke]

I don't know of any info on the plague other than what's in the appendices ... sorry!

What were you wondering about?

[NancyBrooke]

Okay, you got me - compulsive question-answerer that I am:

Here are a couple of interesting articles:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/58674

http://www.tuckborough.net/ithilien.html


There's a lot that can be inferred from the small body of knowledge there is about Osgiliath.

It was probably the first major city in Gondor, and for a long time remained Capital. It lay between the eventually established cities of Minas Ithil, to the East, stronghold of Isildur, and Minas Anor to the West, Stronghold of Anarion. They probably considered Osgiliath 'middle ground.'

When Sauron takes Minas Ithil, then, Isildur and his family flee to the North (Arnor and Elendil), leaving Osgiliath and Minas Anor for Anarion. In fact, it is established during the Kin-strife that Gondor assumes from that point that Isildur (and by extension his heirs) has relinquished his claim on Kingship of Gondor.

Osgiliath was a great city, grown from a site already established by Numenoreans before the Fall as a sea landing. It extended to both sides of the Anduin and was the most northern point on that river to which one could sail because of the Falls of Rauros. So if you were sailing up from the sea to get to pretty much any other part of Middle Earth you would have wanted to go to Osgiliath. In its center was the Dome of Osgiliath and the great stone bridge. There were also a bunch of other bridges, kind of like Paris or Venice I imagine. It obviously had military importance, but also must have had political importance to continue to shelter a Palantir.

This is what I glean from the appendices:

There were three main events which contributed to its becoming deserted.

In 1437 Third age there was civil war in Gondor, the “Kin-Strife.” Osgiliath was besieged and burned, the Tower of the Dome of Osgiliath was destroyed and the Palantir 'lost' (presumably in the river). Then, in 1636-40, there was a plague which killed "great numbers, especially those that lived in Osgiliath." It also killed the King of Gondor and his family so his nephew Tarondor moved the King's House permanently to Minas Anor (later Minas Tirith), as Osgiliath was "now partly deserted, and began to fall into ruin."

Lastly, much later, in 2475, Osgiliath and Ithilien were overrun by black orcs out of Mordor. Boromir son of Denethor I (after whom the LOTR Boromir was named) "defeated them and regained Ithilien; but Osgiliath was finally ruined, and its great stone-bridge was finally broken. No people dwelt there afterwards."

I think it remained in the Gondorian imagination, like Minas Ithil, as symbol of lost greatness, a beautiful thing they had not only created but destroyed. So nearby I think it loomed large in their collective psyche.

More than you wanted to know? Oh well!

N

[NeumeIndil]

[ghettoelleth]

There are pages and pages in Treason of Isengard, look under Anduin and Cair Andros but also if you look up Tol Varad and some of the other earlier names you can get more information. Also check, 'The Delta' and Ether Anduin as well as, 'The Great River'

If I'm not mistaken, time of year would have a great deal to do with navigablity as well. Spring being the best barring the waters being to swift to navigate safely. Vana might know a bit about this, in The Trees Remember, she compares a scene in which Haldir had to cross rushing water to his ability to maneuver in the Anduin so I know she would have researched that. Though the area she mentioned is well north, she may have come across something to help.

Edit: Sorry, that was the War of the Ring, not Treason of Isengard

[NeumeIndil]

Great. Thanks a heap. Now one of these days I'll remember to reply to replies.

Sorry for the lag!
Neu

[Hanasian]

[dolarabee]

It's sad really and Rob and I feel partly to blame as we couldn't find the time to manage the archive properly.

[Hanasian]