[Roisin]

http://www.chud.com/news/oct03/oct13lotr.php3

Does anyone else worry that they're taking the "crazy, nasty, unloving" characterization of Denethor a bit far? In the book, he definitely favored Boromir, but still it seemed to me he was portrayed as a decent but proud man who fell under the power of the palantir and was driven to despair by Sauron.

And apparently the uniform for Crazy Old Heads of State in ME is a ratty fur-collared robe. Theoden had one on before Gandalf showed up, and Denethor is wearing one in the previews.

Roisin

[GypsieRose]

Denethor was a big disappointment to me in a lot of ways. This is nothing against John Noble; I think he was a brilliant choice for the role. He looks the part, he acts wonderfully, and from what I've seen of his comments in interviews, he really understands the character. But the script made him come across as very one-sided, which was a big disappointment after what they had done with other "lost" characters like Boromir and Gollum. I hope he will have more scenes in the EE.

--Rose

[slydog]

I think i know what pj was tryin to do.
He knew he couldnt honor the proper denethor story because of time limitations and too much exposition that would have slowed this juggernaught to a screeching halt. so he changed denethor into an easier character to explain.Denethor=loony.
but thats no excuse...

[Marta]

I agree. Denethor is far and above my favourite character. He's fascinating, and I cringe when I see certain scenes in RotK. The only way I am able to enjoy the movie is by distancing myself from Denethor. "He's just some stranger with the same name," I say to myself.

Don't get me wrong. RotK is a great film. But it pains me to think how much greater it could have been if PJ would have gotten Gondor. (Yes, this problem goes beyond just Denethor... but I shall not go down that road, or I'll be here all night.)

That reminds me, and I really hope this isn't inappropriate. A friend of mine and I have just started an archive for quality Denethor-centric fanfic. http://uk.geocities.com/stewardsscrolls/index.htm -- The Steward's Scrolls. Feel free to look around if you like, and even suggest some Denethor stories you think we might want to include. But I really mention this because my partner in crime has gathered several Denethor quotes that might be of interest -- under the "About Denethor" piece.

Cheers,
Marta
(back from her weekend away... yeah!)

[Mitasova]

[slydog]

yea but there is still all that introduction of yet another palantir and how denethor has been using it and that sauron is showing him defeat and despair and why hes not jus like saruman.
I HATED denethor in this movie. wtf was with gandalf beating the bajesus out of him and nobody doing anything to protect denethor from gandalf. and something that really pissed me off was the fact that all the idiots in the theatre (given they had not read the books) including my sister had no idea that denethor knew faramir was alive. pj did not convey denethors wanting to be with his son and die with him at allllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mitasova]

[slydog]

the palantir would have been jus tooo confusing to people ho hav not read the books. unfortunately, they have to understand it too.

[GypsieRose]

[slydog]

I was sayin to introduc e another palantir would be confusing not to show its effects. And I hated hearing all the cheers when Denethor died. but i forgot about that after a few seconds cuz i did love the movie and i wasnt about to focus on negatives during it.

[GypsieRose]

[Roisin]

I was happy when Denethor died in the book. I hated him.

Roisin

[Mitasova]

[phoenixqueen]

Well, unfortunately I tend to disagree. I think Denethor was very well portrayed in the movie. He was exactly the way I always pictured him when I read the books. I did think that the leaping from the tower was a bit far-fetched, I think watching him set fire to the building would have been a bit more interesting, but unfortunately, PJ couldn't spend a lot of time on the man. I know people might disagree with me, but I just don't see how trying to portray him any other way would have done anything except make people more confused. Adding in the second Palantir or not, he was just too complicated a character to devote a lot of attention to in the time frame that PJ had to work with.

Frankly, most people who are not die-hard LotR fanatics care more about epic battles then the cannon facts and exposition behind a character, and PJ had to play to all the audiences, not just the die-hards. I do agree with the wish that PJ might go back and add in some more scenes with him that maybe flesh out more of his character, but I think he was fine the way he was for the theatrical version.

Plus, there is the consideration that beside the fact that Sauron was putting Gondor under siege, he had just lost his favorite son, he had Gandalf trying to stick his nose into what Denethor considered his business, there was a chance that he would lose all of his power with the return of Aragorn (who, from what I've been able to tell, Denethor didn't much care for when Aragorn was playing Thorongil), and the fact that he probably knew that he wasn't really doing a good job of leading the people, despite what he told himself and others. All of those factors could lead to a mental breakdown and bouts of insanity, which is what we saw in the movie. So I think that Denethor was just fine when portrayed in that light.

(Not to mention it was kind of funny when Gandalf smacked Denethor with his staff when he was being an idiot and ordering everone to abandon their posts. I kinda got a laugh out of that, just because it was very "Gandalf-like" and was a good way to lighten the mood.)

Now, did everybody else thing that Billy Boyd has an amazing singing voice? OMG I nearly cried when he sang for Denethor and they kept interpersing with scene's of Faramir's chage on Osgiliath!

phoenixqueen

[GypsieRose]