Weakened Elves or strengthened baddies?

Silvae · Joined: 28 Nov 2004 Posts: 99 Location: Lyon, France

I was just rereading the LotR and wondered :
- in the F.A., we've got an Elven King dueling with Morgoth, an Ainur, a God in other words, albeit a slightly diminished one. Morgoth sustains rather serious injuries from this encounter.
- in the T.A., we have Sauron, formerly Morgoth's, erm, 'lowly leutenant' and the idea of dueling with him wouldn't caress the mind of any Elf, even one already alive in the F.A., let alone the younger ones. So OK, Finwë (was it?) was killed in the process, and yes it would be hard to duel with an eye, but in your opinion, is it that the Elves diminished SO bleeding much that combat was no longer possible, or is it that even when he was corporeal, the Ring made Sauron so powerful that it would have been impossible to fight with him, let alone win? A combination of both? more of which?
Reactions, please Twisted Evil

Silvae

SpaceWeavil · Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 6:32 pm Post subject:

Thing I've always thought is that, for one thing, after all the battles in Beleriand, there were very few elves left. And after the War of Wrath, another big load of them went into the West, reducing the numbers all the more. So by the Second Age, you had scattered groups of them. So I reckon that was a factor.

Sauron as far as I remember was fairly cagey about taking people on. He was a bit scared of the Numenoreans I believe, and was wary of attacking them. At first when he was wandering around in the Second Age he used trickery and smarmy-talking rather than brute force, until he had the One Ring, which would make me think that, at that time, the elves could've taken him on. I mean, before he had the ring, if you get me. The fact that Elrond and Gil-galad turned him away from Lindon suggests to me that they still had a little of the upper hand at that point, otherwise Sauron / Annatar'd've found some way to get in.

Once he got the One Ring, I reckon that's when the balance tipped. I mean, that is why I have always understood Gil-galad died - that he was literally burned up by the power of the Ring.

After the Last Alliance, the elves' numbers were down again. Lorien and Mirkwood lost loads, with Oropher giving the order to charge too early and Amdir's folk being driven into the marshes, and I'm assuming the elves from Lindon and Imladris lost a fair few as well. Also I would think that after that battle, many elves might have gone West, as after the War of Wrath, but that's just personal theory and not in the texts, I don't think.

So by the Third Age, there were so few of them, that Sauron had moved into a better position, far as I can see.

OK, that is the daily ramble from SpaceWeavil, Laughing

Silvae · Joined: 28 Nov 2004 Posts: 99 Location: Lyon, France

Hmm, yeah. Hadn't thought of the reduced numbers. Thanks for the insight! Smile

BTW, my rambles are usually WAY weirder...

Elentari · Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 3:42 pm Post subject:

To be honest, I think we should factor the One Ring also. Yes, the elves were less in number and scattered, and that is very important. But do not forget that the Ring was bound to the other, lesser, rings that he made to dominate all the races of the Free people (guess he didn't know or minded the hobbits back then). Even when the Three were never touched by his magic/ not made by him, still the One Ring would have a certain influence over all the races.

Is there even a place where the precise powers of the One Ring?

Anyhow, With the Ring Sauron got a good amount of the powers of the creatures of Middle-earth, I think. Or over then, which would amount to the same in this subject.

Maybe Gil-galad should have tried songs of power. Who knows? But with sword and lance, and the One Ring, Sauron was kicking ***.

In short- both the elves were less and the Ring gave Sauron a lot of power.

SpaceWeavil · Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 3:47 pm Post subject:

Silvae · Joined: 28 Nov 2004 Posts: 99 Location: Lyon, France

Hey, no, you didn't give the wrong impression! The ring issue was clear; I just didn't mention it again beacause I thought it wasn't that unclearly phrased in my question (though upon rereading...) Embarassed

Anyway, as it was posted at 1:30 am after a day of exams, I'll forgive myself Need Coffee

Thanks for insights that cleared my slightly in the right direction, but basically muddled thoughts.
Cheers,
Silvae

SpaceWeavil · Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 5:32 pm Post subject:

Silvae · Joined: 28 Nov 2004 Posts: 99 Location: Lyon, France

Hey, another exams person Respekt

. I don't know if they went well... the thinking part of my brain is on standby... exhaustion, y'know. Thanks, anyway. Yours?
X, Silvae
PS : Oh yes, just realised : I'm finished!!
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