Login

Lost Password?

Create New Account

Creative Process

Goto page 1, 2  Next

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
LadyofRohan



Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Posts: 35
Location: The Plains of Rohan...er...Kansas

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:15 pm    Post subject: Creative Process Reply with quote

So when you guys actually sit down to write, to you have an outline or a pretty clear idea of where your story is going, or do you just sit and let it flow?

I tend to get an idea but then when I try to write out an outline, it morphs into something completely unrecognizable Head bang and it winds up ticking me off so I get frustrated and use it to line the birdcage. Sad As a result, I just wind up doing nothing except talking to the voices in my head. Crazy Which they are fun to listen to sometimes, but they do get a bit loud. Argue

What works for you all?

Roh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
SpaceWeavil



Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 23
Location: Looking at shiny things

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm probably the person who shouldn't answer this post, given the mess I've made of recent plots, but...

I tend to take different approaches depending on the story. Just thinking of fics and stuff I have on the go at the moment; 'Grey Havens' started off with an idea, basic plot bunny, then I went through the whole story, plotting it out in 'scenes' in a notebook, from beginning to end. I didn't have it broken down into chapters or anything, just how the story was going to develop. Basically I had the starting point, and because of the canon (Gil-galad and Cirdan not ending up with 'wives' in the texts) I knew where I had to get to by the end of the fic. As I was writing it, the chapter breaks found themselves.

I'm using the same approach for an original fantasy I'm writing, and actually found a thing on http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/getwriting/ about making a full 'plan' of a novel on a huge sheet of paper, so you can see the progress of the story. I'm trying that out, but since I haven't actually started writing the story yet, I don't know how good that will be.

With most of my other fics though, I tend to kind of have a vague idea of the story, like I know with 'And in the Darkness Bind Them' that eventually the Witch King has to end up in Middle-earth, meet up with the other eight soon-to-be-Nazgul, and then eventually meet Annatar-Sauron and get his ring. But I work in small sections deciding how I actually get there. It's almost like I can see the scenes in my mind's eye a lot of the time, other times I can almost hear it as if someone were reading the story to me, and I write down what I hear (yeah, I know how crazy that makes me sound...and if you're scared by that, just remember you don't actually have to live with me... Twisted Evil )

With my total disaster of a Virtual Village fic, on the other hand, I'm making it up as I go along. Same with my Da Vinci Code style original fic (which I just discovered has 21,000 words so far, 20,999 of which are rubbish and should be rewritten, but hey...I got a lot of it!)

Anyway, I know probably nothing of what I've just typed makes much sense, because it's pouring out of my brain without much control. I'll go back to sleep now.

_________________
Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
trekqueen



Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 292
Location: Chambers of the Balrog Slayer

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpaceWeavil wrote:

With most of my other fics though, I tend to kind of have a vague idea of the story, like I know with 'And in the Darkness Bind Them' that eventually the Witch King has to end up in Middle-earth, meet up with the other eight soon-to-be-Nazgul, and then eventually meet Annatar-Sauron and get his ring. But I work in small sections deciding how I actually get there. It's almost like I can see the scenes in my mind's eye a lot of the time, other times I can almost hear it as if someone were reading the story to me, and I write down what I hear (yeah, I know how crazy that makes me sound...and if you're scared by that, just remember you don't actually have to live with me... Twisted Evil )


Heh, that kind of sounds like me... for my story "Eternal" I had an extensive outline for the first 9 chapters because there were very specific things that occured in the First Age when the Noldor came from Valinor. After that I plotted chapters where I would have important aspects of the First Age happen but in between I had more stories and activities happen so that I wouldn't have everything directly happening and revolving around things already set in the Tolkien universe.

The ideas for some parts come to me in images and I try to fill in the holes like dialogue and such. Once in a while I just get on a roll and just write tons of stuff. I usually end up deleting half of it and rewriting it or not using it at all. It's great just to get ideas down on paper (or MS Word) so that you don't forget them and eventually they may be used somewhere. As long as you have some plan of how the story moves along or have some point you meet then you are successful. Smile

_________________
Member of the Official Bawâb Fan Club

"I wish I was a writer who sees what's yet unseen. I wish I was a prayer expressing what I mean. I wish I was a stranger who wanders down the sky. I wish I was a starship in silence flying by." --Wish (Komm zu mir)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
NeumeIndil



Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think of it like this: A good story is like a living thing; while it can be trained and encouraged in certain directions, too much "tending" will stunt it's growth and ultimately kill it. I just sit down and type for the first few pages, chapters, whatever you want to use to mark the passing of time. Then, I'll re-read what I just did and jot ideas of where I think I might like it to go. Then, I go back to writing it. It often follows a different road than I thought it would, but that's why I don't plan too hard. As long as I'm not fighting the story to breathe and it's not being stifled by my influence, I find the process takes care of itself.

Some people can't approach it with so many loose ends and that's okay too, but if you're getting frustrated when it goes into an unexpected place, it's probably time to stop and look at both the story and the plan again. There's a lot to be said for having some objective and trusted people that you can send bits of an in progress piece for opinions and ideas. This is a good place to find some.

Hope that helped.

Neume

_________________
An Infinite Source of Pervy Wisdom.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
SpaceWeavil



Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 23
Location: Looking at shiny things

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeumeIndil wrote:
I think of it like this: A good story is like a living thing; while it can be trained and encouraged in certain directions, too much "tending" will stunt it's growth and ultimately kill it. I just sit down and type for the first few pages, chapters, whatever you want to use to mark the passing of time. Then, I'll re-read what I just did and jot ideas of where I think I might like it to go. Then, I go back to writing it. It often follows a different road than I thought it would, but that's why I don't plan too hard. As long as I'm not fighting the story to breathe and it's not being stifled by my influence, I find the process takes care of itself.


I agree to a certain extent, but the reason I have taken to planning with some increased rigidity is that I've found with some stories that if I just spill out my ideas and let it be mostly unplanned and fluid, there is a risk that the pace will slow and the structure of it will fall apart. I suppose some readers aren't too fussed if the story doesn't have the proper sense of tension, conflict and resolution, but I have had complaints about my slowness in my writing and sometimes my endings. So my way to cope is to plan. It's also become very important because I'm starting to do original stuff, which I'm hoping to get published eventually, and therefore the actual structure and plot of the thing is as important as the words, and is an artistic creation in its own right that has to stand out as well-formed and thought out.

In fan fic, I will let a story go off on one if it likes, quite often though, as I've said. I go with what's best for the story but above all, when I'm plotting (and I should've said this earlier, but forgot) I try to keep in mind what is the natural flow of events.

Like, if my main character has just found out that the creepy guy that invited her into his castle to make her the sacrificial bride of the Balrog that's been secretly living in the cellar (sort of Middle-earth Roger Corman movie type thing), then I try to think what would happen logically, like what would her proper reaction be, what would I do if I was in that situation. I've found that way, rather than saying 'right, how can I get a scene witha chicken in this' actually keeps it real and helps it to flow along properly.


Quote:
Some people can't approach it with so many loose ends and that's okay too, but if you're getting frustrated when it goes into an unexpected place, it's probably time to stop and look at both the story and the plan again. There's a lot to be said for having some objective and trusted people that you can send bits of an in progress piece for opinions and ideas. This is a good place to find some.


Yeah, and ideas person can be a wonderful thing. Get someone you trust not to just pinch the ideas and use them for their own fic to kind of bounce things around with. Quite often that in itself will stem a whole plethora of ideas. Also another set of eyes might spot something dodgy that you might not have seen.

Personally I've found it quite hard to find someone to do this with, as I've found most folks don't really have the time or the interest, certainly for me anyway, but if you find someone you can brainstorm with, keep 'em. I've lost all mine and can't find anyone else to beta or swap ideas and I really feel it now.

_________________
Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Neniel



Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 147
Location: Hiding from the men in white. Contrary to common belief, psychiatrists are *very* sneaky people

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I tend to write small parts of all kinds of stories, and then gather those that seem more relevant and turn them into a plot... Or I get this plot bunny and start working on it and see how it goes. Most of the time, there are little details about this dialogue or the next, or little things that come out while I write that guide the plot further on. I have tried making an exact plan of a story before writing it, but then there was no joy in going on with it, because it seemed like all the creative work had been done before hand.

I find that the main trouble with this kind of approach, though, is that it's too risky to post anything until it's finished. This sort of 'loose writing' demands lots of rewrites and going back and correcting this scene or that because you wanted something to work out differently at some point of the story later on, so you need to be able to get back and make corrections as you move along. I know, because I tried posting a story while I was writing it, and when I decided I wanted to give it a few massive changes and my hands were tied. Now I just write away, and if I ever get something finished, then I'll consider a post.

You can't rule out the fact, though, that it propably works out differently for each kind of writer... As long as this is not about professional story-writing, I guess it's a matter of what you enjoy doing the most no matter what the outcome.

_________________
Dubbed Neni by the sweet OSA raving lunatics Very Happy
http://www.livejournal.com/users/nenielsildurien/
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Never be afraid to try something new.
A lone amateur built the Arc. A group of professionels built the Titanic. Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
SpaceWeavil



Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 23
Location: Looking at shiny things

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neniel wrote:
I have tried making an exact plan of a story before writing it, but then there was no joy in going on with it, because it seemed like all the creative work had been done before hand.


For me that's a big chunk of the fun, plotting the thing out. But then I really enjoy research for a fic as well, almost as much as writing the thing.

Also (and again I forgot to say this earlier...see, I didn't plot my answer! Laughing ) one think I've found when I'm plotting out fics or doing research is that the very act of writing a plan often stems off other ideas, some for other stories or some for the one at hand. It's a great feeling when that happens, though I do quite often wish I didn't handwrite my notes, as my fingers start to hurt when I get on a roll...heh.

_________________
Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
NeumeIndil



Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually running into the same difficulty Neniel has where things suddenly change what happened or should have happened in the past, but that's why I do multiple drafts. I have yet to write something longer than 200 words that I was happy with after a single pass. Calling a draft finished, though, can be difficult hence the idea people and betas.

Ultimately, I think, plotting and approach are a matter of how each individual works best. I have yet to try the huge piece o' paper thing but other writer friends of mine swear by it. I tend to do a bullet list of main ideas I want to hit and then wander from one to the next. I also cut a lot of stuff from draft to draft or split it off into other scenes and short-shorts, but I have completely unrelated plot bunnies bouncing up in the middle of things too. If I hit a sticky patch, I'll stop and do a sort of rough-cut edit and find problems in what's already written, though I don't usually change things at that time. You never know when it's going to want to change back.

It's a big hairy, tangled mess sometimes but if it wasn't fun to try to sort through I wouldn't do it. I am a bit of a masochist though. Smile

_________________
An Infinite Source of Pervy Wisdom.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
LadyofRohan



Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Posts: 35
Location: The Plains of Rohan...er...Kansas

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to everyone for their tips and thoughts about what works for them. Joining this list has got some really rusty creative juices flowing for me...in fact I think it could be more accurately described as creative sludge at this moment in time. I pulled the shoe box out from under the bed that I have kept my muse in, and boy was she ticked when I opened the lid and she realized it wasn't the 80's anymore. Bad fashion flashback! I haven't written much more than a shopping list since I got married, although I got a minor in English when I was in college. Thanks again, and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next!

Roh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ghettoelleth



Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 1804

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, here's how it works in Ghettoworld,

You have an intricate plot with a million details. You have as many characters as you can possibly find with little or no development. For instance, Glorfindel, Osse, Cirdan, Gildor Inglorian, and some made up dudes you can mess up as much as you like.

The you sit down write three words and then hit the books for two hour researching those three words to make sure you're sticking with canon. Then, when you finally get on a roll you get this

Steve the balrog (my muse): Psst, Jes, this would be way cooler.

Me: Shut up Steve, I'm on a roll.

Steve: But if you do this, how much cooler would it be?

This goes on until he has me convinced to meander completely off the beaten path until I have written myself into a corner. At this point I tearfully turn to such wonderful works as UT and anything with letters from Tolk where I can cheat my way the hell back to my plot.

All the while I'm keeping track of 52 characters and 72 different sub plots. Really, try my method, if nothing else you'll end up heavily medicated, drooling down the front of your shirt and saying things like, "Tolkien? Isn't that the guy who writes all the Chilton's?" Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

_________________
"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can not confirm their validity." Abraham Lincoln
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
NeumeIndil



Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That explains SO much, Ghetto. Smile Remind me to try that one when I need an insanity plea.
_________________
An Infinite Source of Pervy Wisdom.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
SpaceWeavil



Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 23
Location: Looking at shiny things

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghettoelleth wrote:
The you sit down write three words and then hit the books for two hour researching those three words to make sure you're sticking with canon.


And then as you're searching for the facts etc. more plot bunnies leap off the pages of HoME and bite you viciously, à la Monty Python, thus distracting you from what you were originally researching and spawning whole new stories to fret about.

Quote:
Then, when you finally get on a roll you get this

Steve the balrog (my muse): Psst, Jes, this would be way cooler.

Me: Shut up Steve, I'm on a roll.

Steve: But if you do this, how much cooler would it be?

This goes on until he has me convinced to meander completely off the beaten path until I have written myself into a corner. At this point I tearfully turn to such wonderful works as UT and anything with letters from Tolk where I can cheat my way the hell back to my plot.


Aww, go Steve. He's so cute.

With me it's been the stupid Witch King of Angmar, stubbornly refusing to follow the plot I'd spent hours researching and working out. He goes off and does his own thing, so I then have to think, right, where is the silly soon-to-be Nazgul going with this, and work out some plot that can still get me to the point I need to be at. Big sigh of relief, and we can carry on with the story.

At which point Witchy decides, no, wanna do the original plot again.

Rolling Eyes

_________________
Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
simon22cat



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 44
Location: In front of the computer. Duh.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outline? We don't need no stinking outline.

Although, I probably should use one. I am more of a let flow kind of writer. Usually, I have a line or two come to me and the story just evolves from there. I usually have the beginning wrote, and know how it is going to end. It is the in between that I have trouble with.

_________________
Haldir lives...regardless of what Peter Jackson might say.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
simon22cat



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 44
Location: In front of the computer. Duh.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing to see here...move along. This was a double post. Shocked
_________________
Haldir lives...regardless of what Peter Jackson might say.


Last edited by simon22cat on Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
SilverMoonLady



Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 1201
Location: Breaking in a Brandybuck... *wicked grin*

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I try very hard to have an outline, since it helps to track just where i'm going, but it rarely works, since my characters have been taking lessons from Space's WitchKing and tend to wander where they want... I also tend to get trapped into a 'form' that is elegant, but requires more be written just for the sake of symmetry (you can't have 3 of the 4 parts have 3 chapters and then one have just 2... it just doesn't 'feel' right, right? Head bang )
Most of the time though, I start off with an idea, a line, a scene that is standing there taunting me, and I write that, and then it will either write itself, or turn into one of these maddening, gotta-outline-this-or-lose-it monsters. This means I have a ton and a half of scenes and sketched out chapters with nothing around them, and several *really* long outlines with a half-dozen parts fleshed out. Sometimes I just end up cannibalizing the bits and mashing them into the big story, which is nice, since there are so many of them lying about doing nothing at all Very Happy
That's actually what I'm doing right now.. and boy is it a headache!
And this just after vowing never to do really really long fic again... I simply never learn!

_________________
Suffering an again off again connection with life...
The joy of motherhood: what a woman experiences when all the kids are in bed.
*local PHF union rep* *tart of the week*
Shelob the Cookie Baker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum