[SpaceWeavil]

Does anyone know if, anywhere in the HoME or elsewhere, there is ever a description of how the elves would treat a body after death? I know what happens to their ‘soul’ and all that, but does it say anywhere what they do with the corporeal bits? I have this feeling that I have read something about it but cannot think for the life of me. If there isn't anything in the texts, what are your ideas on the subject? I’m doing a fic set just after the Last Alliance, which is what this would be for.
Grateful if anyone could help, or point me in the right direction for research.

[Viv]

There's a bit about Glorfindel (check the Gondolin story in the Silm and the Unfinished Tales) post-Balrog. I think they buried his body under a pile of stones. But considering the nature of elven bodies, it might be okay to just assume that they vanished after a while.

[SpaceWeavil]

[Rous]

This is something I am also interested it. I need to kill of an Elf, and I do not know what to do with the body. LOL. I know they mourned Gandalf's passing, but, as they had no body to dispose of, there was no service. Would there be, say, for a fallen warrior? I do not believe they would put much store in the burial itself, as they were headed for the Halls of Mandos, but what of a laying out, or a sevice of rememberance? Maybe a giving away of personal items to friends and loved ones? Any thoughts, ideas, quotes, concerns, interest?

Rous

[Rous]

This is something I am also interested it. I need to kill off an Elf, and I do not know what to do with the body. LOL. I know they mourned Gandalf's passing, but, as they had no body to dispose of, there was no service. Would there be, say, for a fallen warrior? I do not believe they would put much store in the burial itself, as they were headed for the Halls of Mandos, but what of a laying out, or a sevice of rememberance? Maybe a giving away of personal items to friends and loved ones? Any thoughts, ideas, quotes, concerns, interest?

Rous

[Thuriniel]

Reading the Sil you encounter a few Elven deaths ... let's see ... I'm going to put some of my new found knowledge to work:

Fingolfin: Thorondor recovered what was left of Fingolfin's body after Morgoth dismembered the body, and laid it on top of a mountain. Turgon climbed the mountain later and built a "high cairn over his father." So apparently, something remained even after such a brutal death, it didn't just vanish.

Feanor: Well, Feanor is quite the character, we all know that , and he found it necessary to depart this world in the most fambloyant of ways. Apparently his fea was so powerful that after he took his last breath his body turned to ash (sorry, I couldn't resist). But it does say that: "he had neither burial nor tomb." This comment leads me to believe that it was customary to bury the body and have a burial service.

Finrod: He was buried too, and The Sil actually states that his tomb remained "inviolate, until the land was changed and broken, and foundered under destroying seas."

There are more deaths, of course, but with this evidence I would conclude that they indeed had burial rituals and that they buried their dead underground.

Hope this helped!

[SpaceWeavil]

That actually does help a lot. I know this thread is old, but I'm still on the same story and just about to get to the part where this is relevant.

[Thuriniel]

To all this I would add that it doesn't seem likely that Elves would have cemeteries ... their bodies seem to be buried in meaningful places ... top of a mountain, an island ...

[Andreth]

The only thing I have to add is that the idea of Elvish bodies simply *poof* vanishing immediately after death is obviously erroneous. There's lots of mentions of Elvish bodies being around after death to be buried, as have been given above. People tend to take that footnote out of context and so misinterpret it. Tolkien was referring to the decay of Elvish bodies *as compared to that of the Dwarves* and according to what he wrote, the Dwarves' bodies could remain inviolate and intact for hundreds of years. So the process of decay in Elvish bodies was quicker but, other than Feanor, not immediate.

And if you're writing about dead bodies left behind from the Last Alliance, don't forget about the Dead Marshes. A lot of Elvish bodies ended up there, too. Thousands of them, IIRC. I almost forgot about Gil-galad as an Elf whose body vanished right after death, or potentially did anyway.

In Council of Elrond, Isildur's account of the end of the WotR says something like the Black Hand of Sauron burned like fire and so ended Gil-galad. Some people interpret that to mean that Sauron burned Gil-galad to a crisp, but some people think that's too literal an interpretation. Gee, I'm glad Tolkien wasn't vague about things.

[SpaceWeavil]

The one that's giving me hassle at the moment is Ereinion Gil-galad - just from the Silm and stuff I got the impression that there wasn't anything left of him to be buried, from the way it says his spear was destroyed in the fight with Sauron. You'd've thought if it was just a normal conflict, there would be bits of Aiglos left, as there were with Narsil, unless both spear and owner were totally destroyed, if that makes sense? I am probably reading far too much into this, but there's also no mention of anything happening with regards to Gil-galad's body afterwards, where there is with Elendil, and you'd think the elves would want to bury their king if they could?

Please tell me if I am way off on any of this, or if there is a reference somewhere that I've missed that explains this, but this is what's been bugging me lately.

[Andreth]

That was always my thought - that if there were anything left of Gil-galad's body it would have been given a hallowed burial somewhere and at least mentioned. Elendil's burial and burial place were described.

I think that's why most people go with the incineration idea. It's easier to explain and it makes more sense. Plus, I can see Sauron wanting to completely obliterate one of his greatest enemies and leave nothing for the Elves to bury or honor. I've also speculated that the Black Hand thing itself was a sign that the Ring carried enough power in it to burn Sauron's hand permanently, so imagine what it would do if Sauron turned it directly on someone else. While I don't like the thought of my dear Ereinion being burned alive, that's the way I've always envisioned it.

[SpaceWeavil]

That's exactly what I was thinking - the incineration thing. You're right, not a pleasant way to go, but at least now I have an idea what I'm doing

[sindohte]

[Andreth]

[SpaceWeavil]

As far as I know, you're spot on, Anna. Can't remember off hand if it's Silm or Unfinished Tales or whatever, but Oropher raced on ahead at Dagorlad before Gil-galad had given the command to advance, and was killed. Later Amdir of Lorien was driven off into the Dead Marshes with a load of his elves, and they were killed there, separated from the rest of the Alliance.

I can't remember off hand if it mentioned where Oropher was buried, but I would assume it would be either on Dagorlad or in the Dead Marshes?