| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
|
 Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:40 am Post subject: Elves and Weightlessness |
 |
|
I have been wondering a lot about this ... maybe some of you can shed some light on this topic.
So we know that Legolas can walk on top of snow, but does that really mean that Elves hold very little weight to them? Or is it just that they can somehow go against the laws of gravity? (or whatever, I need Panneth the physicist here ... physics totally evade me  ).
Any thoughts?
_________________
~ boe an phân pedi ‘lam dadui ~ 
~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
NancyBrooke
Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 160
Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've always understood that it's more along the lines of they can walk so carefully and lightly so as not to disturb their environment, and leave virtually no sign of their passing.
Elf specialists, please ...
_________________
NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Umm, sounds good to me Nancy  I would love to know myself if Tolkien ever gave an official explanation for that phenomena someplace.
_________________
abandon thought, and let the dream descend... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Panneth
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 0
Location: Manchester/London
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Elves and Weightlessness |
|
|
| Thuriniel wrote: | | So we know that Legolas can walk on top of snow, but does that really mean that Elves hold very little weight to them? Or is it just that they can somehow go against the laws of gravity? (or whatever, I need Panneth the physicist here ... physics totally evade me ). |
Don't even try and get me started. We'll go over your misuse of the word "weight" later.
_________________
~ Emma |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| NancyBrooke wrote: | I've always understood that it's more along the lines of they can walk so carefully and lightly so as not to disturb their environment, and leave virtually no sign of their passing.
Elf specialists, please ... |
To not be an Elf specialist you did really well explaining your thoughts on the matter  ! I really like your explanation, and I think that makes lots of sense ... so thank you!
I guess, once again, I got canon and fanon mixed up ... so I just wanted to get things right this time!
_________________
~ boe an phân pedi ‘lam dadui ~
~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Elves and Weightlessness |
|
|
| Panneth wrote: | | Thuriniel wrote: | | So we know that Legolas can walk on top of snow, but does that really mean that Elves hold very little weight to them? Or is it just that they can somehow go against the laws of gravity? (or whatever, I need Panneth the physicist here ... physics totally evade me ). |
Don't even try and get me started. We'll go over your misuse of the word "weight" later. |
I'm an English as a Second Language Speaker! I'm sorry, weigh, weight ... so confusing ...  !
I would love to hear your explanation of this little fact ! How does a physicist approach this?
_________________
~ boe an phân pedi ‘lam dadui ~
~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Panneth
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 0
Location: Manchester/London
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
We'd wave our hands, approximate the elf as a sphere and come up with some crazy equations which I refuse to contemplate because teaching doesn't start for another 20 days!
_________________
~ Emma |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
inglor
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 853
Location: Not here, not there, not anywhere
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
More Elf Magic as Sam would say? They (the Elves) don't see it as magic but the same way they can move without making noise, they don't leave foot prints and can walk on snow. (what about water?).
Elves seemed to live by a set of physical rules not quite like ours. They lived forever, they did not get sick, could emit their own light, challenge demi gods and gods and almost win, walk over ice for 30 years, and forge metal that not only did not rust after 7000 years but glowed in the presence of a specific animal. They made a sword that talked, an axe that swooshed, jewels that were alive and rings that could allow organisms to ward off the affects of time. they could command flood waters.
In light of what the mightiest of the elves could do, I don't think that walking on snow, being utterly still, or moving without any noise beyond the realm of natural elven abitlities. Given their somewhat magicla existence, could snow walking be just more "magic"
Andreth will probably come in and completely destroy my hypothesis with one good quote from Letters or something...
_________________
Hi, My name is Inglor and I am a Tolkien Geek (sub-species: Silgeek)
Owner of the phrase: "merciless attention" so authorized by Viv |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Panneth wrote: | | We'd wave our hands, approximate the elf as a sphere and come up with some crazy equations which I refuse to contemplate because teaching doesn't start for another 20 days! |
Approximate the Elf as a sphere ... that sounds hilarious for some reason!
_________________
~ boe an phân pedi ‘lam dadui ~
~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| inglor wrote: | More Elf Magic as Sam would say?
|
I think that "Elf Magic" sounds like a very good explanation! No need to worry about gravity if it's magic we're talking about.
After all the things that you have ennumerated that Elves can do as opposed to humans, walking on snow doesn't sound all that incredible .
So do we conclude that Elves do have weight, but it's thanks to their magical nature that they can do things that defy the laws of physics that humans are bound to?
... I hope that made sense, and I hope that I used "weight" correctly this time ... English ... what a joy  !
_________________
~ boe an phân pedi ‘lam dadui ~
~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Moralanqua
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1051
Location: Scotland
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think of that abillity kinda like a supernatural cat. They can walk on rope too! Thats balance and gravity defying!!
(Amroth drowned, id take that as him not being able to walk on water )
_________________
I am no longer posting on the Forums. If you need me, I am lurking in the archives, reading and reviewing. You can also catch me at Demented Indigo! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thuriniel wrote: | So do we conclude that Elves do have weight, but it's thanks to their magical nature that they can do things that defy the laws of physics that humans are bound to?
|
Well I may have an answer to your question. I was reading Morgoth's Ring this afternoon and trying to understand the conversation between Finrod and Andreth about the nature of humans, Elves and all that good stuff. Obviously I will have to read it over again a few times in order for the information fully sink in, but I think I may have a half baked explanation as to the Elves walking on snow. So here goes - Elves are tied to the fate of Arda, therefore they would not be bound by the same laws of gravity or nature that mortals. I personally would not consider Legolas's ability to walk on snow to be magic, but rather he was not made of the same stuff (for lack of a better term) as the other members of the Fellowship. Even though Elves and humans are cousins of a sort, they are still different creatures. And that would explain why Gandalf, an istari who happened to be in human form, was not able to walk upon the snow like Legolas.
_________________
abandon thought, and let the dream descend... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andreth
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 1211
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would assume that the Elves' very defined sense of balance was caused by their unique control of their body. Elves' bodies were sustained by their spirits and their spirits were more powerful, which is why their bodies would fade over time, consumed by the fire of the spirits.
Their spirits were very in tune with nature (hence their ability to affect magic of sorts) and they were capable of doing things with their bodies that humans weren't. Like with their enhanced eyesight and hearing - I don't believe this was because they had different rod and cone structures in their eyes or some type of anatomical difference, but because their spirits were much more in tune with their bodies and hence had heightened abilities. Like how some humans seem to have a sixth sense or have some psychic abilities - their bodies are the same as ours. They just have something different going on inside them.
All of this is just my opinion, but I think there's something along these lines in the Osanwe-kenta essay. I don't remember exactly at the moment.
Anna
PS Sind - Poor old Gandalf had problems because the mortal body he was in was meant to interfere with his powers. Also I think the Istari's powers were reduced before being sent to ME. It's in the chapter about them in Unfinished Tales
PPS Sorry Inglor - after today Andreth will be pretty much retired from the forums. Somebody else will have to step in and give you the smack down from the peripheral texts from now on. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Viv
Challenge Admin
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Texas
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Andreth wrote: | | Their spirits were very in tune with nature (hence their ability to affect magic of sorts) and they were capable of doing things with their bodies that humans weren't. |
*insert pervy oh-really? comment here*
| Andreth wrote: | | PPS Sorry Inglor - after today Andreth will be pretty much retired from the forums. Somebody else will have to step in and give you the smack down from the peripheral texts from now on. |
This sounds suspiciously like a retirement announcement. Say it ain't so. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PoweroftheBook
Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 80
Location: Appalachin Mountains of North Carolina
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hmmm...
I addressed this problem in my fic 'The Flame Rises' by rationalizing that Elves could walk on solids, hence allowing them to walk on crystalline snow - but on substances like soupy mud, the phase of matter was more liquid than solid, so they had to slog through like everyone else. As much as I adore Elves - and I do - I can't quite stomach the thought of them walking through water.
So if Legolas and Gimli had no option but to wade through a muddy bog, Legolas would fare no better than Gimli but for his height and natural grace.
No idea if this is correct, but might as well throw in my two cents...
Regards,
The Power of the Book  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Live Journal Feed
