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Isabeau
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 38
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 Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| miriel361 wrote: | Yes Scribe, I also try to write at least a chapter a week and sometimes even manage it. Bit hard going when I am writing three stories at a time ( because of boredom). 
One story I would like to recommend here if I may, because I caught the name in the forum. Captain My Captain by Isabeau was a wonderful story - a little long - but wonderful. I'm not sure if it is the same Isabeau who is posting here. Í believe the story is posted on ff.net although I read it at Henneth Anun.
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Yes Miriel, I am the same Isabeau! Thank you for the recommendation. Hopefully, one more chapter and it will no longer be a WIP! My husband does not believe this, by the way.
As for me--I used to churn out a chapter a week in the early parts of Captain, but they were 7-9 page chapters. Then they got longer, and it was 10 days to 2 weeks. Then I started writing other chapter stories when I got blocked on Captain. Right now, things seem to come in fits and starts--when I'm blocked, I skip from one story to another, adding little bits till the muse becomes more cooperative. As a result, nowadays I find myself going for a month or more without updating anything, then in the space of a week updating 2-3 stories because they've all finished up at once. |
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Maram68
Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 535
Location: West from East
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Gaslight wrote: | I bring up the question and it seems, so far, like I'm the slowest one. 10-12 pages every 2 weeks and sometimes it takes a month.  |
My writing lapses go close to yours, Gaslight. A chapetr of mine takes about 2 to 3 weeks, and is mostly 7-9 pages.
Though I try to keep my muse disciplined, I have a 10 hour-day job, a husband, two small children, and work for a couple of websites voluntarily ...
Anyway, I don't have much patience with authors who don't update regularly and I try not to do the same. (There are exceptions, I would wait for one of Viv's or Una's updates as long as it takes)
But the muse (and I know it' quite easy to blame the lack of writing on a mythical being) just comes and goes.
We shall keep on trying to educate the muse.
_________________
Lord, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the Courage to change the things I can and the Wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I may have to kill because they piss me off. |
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Ariel
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I am pretty slow as well. I tend to vacillate between writing angst and then smut - and my readers tend to read one or the other. I have a long fic (not here at OS) that I have been writing since April and is the first fic I have tried to post as I am writing. It is NOT the way I want to write, but the story was getting so long I wanted feedback on it to see if I SHOULD finish it! I average a chapter in that about every 1.5 to 2 months... but fill in the remaining time writing short smut.
I also have realistically NO time during the day to write. My only free time is after the kids go to bed, and by then my brain is so fried, nothing coherent could come from my fingers. I steal other moments to write on my PDA wherever I happen to find a free moment alone. Portable keypad for this thing is a must! I also read fic on it and don't know where I would be without the thing.
Ariel |
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Lindorien
Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | | Gaslight wrote: | | I bring up the question and it seems, so far, like I'm the slowest one. |
But I go off on tangents, let the muse dictate my output... I'm just so undisciplined. Anybody have good tips for self-discipline?. |
Hey! Gaslight! Who says I don't ignore everybody! HAHA... I've 2 dogs and 4 cats, a husband and two small children who want to know why I stare at the computer all the time!
The decibel level is frightening around here sometimes. So I stick the Grateful Dead in the drive and put on headphones!
Seriously, RL has been calling to me and I have largely been ignoring it as much as I can get away with the past few months because I've been working on a rather large project.
Discipline tips regarding writing. I hate to say it, but the only thing to do is to sit at the word processor and type. It is a tried and true method that works. If I do not become inspired, I just start typing -- anything -- anything at all. Eventually sentences start to form and before I know it, it looks like a story and everybody is whispering at me again.
It also helps to lay in a goodly supply of microwaveable food and find activities for the children that keep them away from the house for hours at a time! Husbands...here's what I do.
I read to him. Yes, my husband is my primary sounding board. Not for the fanfiction -- that bores him to tears, unfortunately, but for everything else. He loves to listen and offer commentary and is a great help to me as an objective opinion, and then he feels included and we are both happy.
Here's the other tip -- hang out with like minded individuals. Not just in a place like openscrolls, but in emails or the telephone, whatever, depending on the writing you are doing. Try to set up a Round Table of some sort with a few others with common goals for mutual critique and encouragement. It is immensely helpful and keeps everybody going.
Lindorien |
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Gaslight
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Ariel wrote: | | I also have realistically NO time during the day to write. My only free time is after the kids go to bed, and by then my brain is so fried, nothing coherent could come from my fingers. |
*pats on back* My situation exactly. I have no kids or husband, but all the critters make up for that. Last night I managed to get a dozen lines inserted into one of my chapters and then woke up with my head a very odd angle over my laptop. And I consider that a GOOD, productive night. 
I do use music to zone things out. Janis Joplin (yeah!) helps a lot. Also crank up that opera and the critter skitter fades away.  Sometimes the headache afterwards is worth it if I have a page done by the end. |
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Ariel
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:20 am Post subject: |
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I must offer a tip that has helped me immensely with my writing and my reading of fic. I have a PDA – one of those little Windows CE things – and a portable keyboard. I work in places that have no access to the internet (ie. the woods) and am able to download fics right onto it for my reading pleasure. I also can write on it when I have the spare moment (lunch, breaks) and so get most of my productive work done that way. I know they aren’t cheap, but if you can swing one, I highly recommend it. At this point, I don’t know HOW I managed without it!
Ariel |
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Gaslight
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Ariel wrote: | | I must offer a tip that has helped me immensely with my writing and my reading of fic. I have a PDA – one of those little Windows CE things – and a portable keyboard. |
So they're wireless? I can't even use cell phones where I live or in many places where I am, so if it requires wireless technology, I have to pretty much be in either of the two major towns around here for it to work.
I have tried one of those things -- my sister has one -- and I got frustrated with the Sumerian scrawl you had to adopt to write on it. That they have portable keyboards is welcome information. But usually if I'm struck with an idea, I just grab a piece of scrap paper or a napkin and do it the old-fashioned way.  |
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miriel361
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Well Isabeau - I'm only giving praise where praise is due. The only thing that surprises me is that you describe Captain My Captain as a WIP. I believed it to be finished right after the fight at the pub (wonderful fighting scene by the way) and when Elrond finally accepts the heroine as a daughter in law.
What I really loved about the story, apart from the fact that the twins were in it, was how Elladan and Elrohir were receptive to each others emotions when they were having sex. Now that woke the voyeur in me. lol. 
Anyway I'm glad that other people can relate to the difficulties of fitting in writing around a job, husband and young children. But I consider writing to be my natural relaxant, my milk and honey before I go to bed. |
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Ariel
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Gaslight wrote: | | So they're wireless? I can't even use cell phones where I live or in many places where I am, so if it requires wireless technology, I have to pretty much be in either of the two major towns around here for it to work. |
Actually, no, not wireless. I work in the middle of BF Nowhere and I couldn't get a wireless signal to save my soul. Nope, the PDA is just a copy of your computer's data updated from the point of the last time you plugged it in. I use it to answer email and write stories, keep shopping lists and calendar items. It has a LOT of other uses and NO... I haven't mastered 'writing' in it either. I use the little popup keyboard or the portable one I bought (a godsend!). Whatever I do on the PDA is automatically updated against older copies of the same files on my PC. It is really easy to use once you play with it for a while...
Geez... look at me... I sound like a sales person!
Ariel |
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Gaslight
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:42 am Post subject: |
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I dunno...I think I'll pass on the PDA. 1) I'd lose it or the cockatoo would find it and dismantle it and 2) they're such tiny things and I can't hold small stuff without my wrists and arms hurting. (The stylus nearly killed me the one time I tried it.) I'm not a technogeek and I tend to use pen and paper in a pinch instead of thinking, "Darn, I need a PDA!" My sister lives on hers, but I haven't seen the charm. The reason I asked if they're wireless is that I've heard you can cruise the internet on them. I spend enough time on it at work as it is without it eating up ALL of my time.  Well, my laptop is handy enough. I really don't think a PDA would help me fic-writing wise because I need a good chunk of time to be productive on anything and for little brainstorms, pen and paper will do! The arsenal of technogadgets some people have, though, is mind boggling. Gee, and I thought I was pretty with it when I got 2 cheapo speakers for my stereo so I can have sound behind me too. |
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Ariel
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 7:33 am Post subject: |
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OK... rant time.
What the heck is so bad about OFCs?!?!?
Sorry. I was reading a poll somewhere that asked for the reasons people hated OFCs and nowhere on the poll was there a place to say that one didn’t hate OFCs. I spent the morning trying to find some way of addressing the author of said poll to mention that some of us really DON’T.
I have always been something of an OFC champion and the seemingly UNIVERSAL despite of them really burns me. I can see why someone wouldn't like Mary Sues, heck, I find them painful and won't read one, but I like good OFCs and OMCs. They are sometimes the only way one can accomplish what one wants to do in a story. They can be interesting, engaging, captivating and pivotal - so why is it that so many authors (mostly women themselves) seem to hate such characters with such a universal loathing? Is it only because there are so many bad ones out there?
Maybe I am wierd, but if I find a bad OC, I just quit reading. Plain and simple. I don't dwell on them, I don't get angry with the author, I don't dismiss EVERY OC because I read a few that bored me to tears. There are some SPLENDID stories out there that get ignored by the rank and file simply because they have an OC in them. Well, pardon the heck out of me.
It is a very logical plot device for a female writer to want to put a female, even a self-insertion, into a story that she loves. Most of us have done it at least once, and most of us have a very tender place in our heart for our OC regardless of the quality of the story he or she is in. I would have thought that, knowing how we ourselves feel about our own OCs, that we predominantly female authors would have some compassion for what others are trying to do. Writing a good OC is a heck of a lot harder than writing a canon character whose history is already written for you. You have to create a background, make sure it is plausible, determine her interaction with canon characters (if necessary) and make her 'real'. That requires work. I have always respected what it took to create a good OC and laud these efforts but it still boggles my mind WHY most readers seem to want to poke out their eyes with hot pokers rather than read a story with an OC. For crying out loud, Tolkien created a whole universe of OCs and we don’t seem to have any trouble with them!
A very confused Ariel |
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Isabeau
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | [quote="Ariel"]OK... rant time.
What the heck is so bad about OFCs?!?!? |
Don't have any problem with them at all, myself. Would be a total hypocrite if I did!
| Quote: | | Sorry. I was reading a poll somewhere that asked for the reasons people hated OFCs and nowhere on the poll was there a place to say that one didn’t hate OFCs. I spent the morning trying to find some way of addressing the author of said poll to mention that some of us really DON’T. |
I saw that one too. It's a sterling example of how you can slant a poll to get the results you desire. I simply didn't complete it. I take it you were going to discuss it on the poll forum? It might not be a bad idea--it probably should be pointed out to the author that all she is going to get is a breakdown of the reasons people who hate OFCs on the site hate them--not necessarily an overview of all the people on the site, and whether they hate them or not. Of course, the first result may have been what she was looking for.
| Quote: | | I have always been something of an OFC champion and the seemingly UNIVERSAL despite of them really burns me. I can see why someone wouldn't like Mary Sues, heck, I find them painful and won't read one, but I like good OFCs and OMCs. They are sometimes the only way one can accomplish what one wants to do in a story. They can be interesting, engaging, captivating and pivotal - so why is it that so many authors (mostly women themselves) seem to hate such characters with such a universal loathing? Is it only because there are so many bad ones out there? |
I don't think the despite is universal. I know too many good writers who use them. As you said, they are often the only way to get to where you want to go in a story--for instance, the common man's POV that is often so revealing requires an OC, unless you are using Ioreth or someone like that. There are those writers out there who limit themselves to purely canonical characters--more power to them, but it ties my hands too much. If I base part of my story in Dol Amroth, then by necessity, outside of the Prince and his named, canonical children, every person in the story has to be an OC. And I want to write Dol Amroth stories.
| Quote: | | Maybe I am wierd, but if I find a bad OC, I just quit reading. Plain and simple. I don't dwell on them, I don't get angry with the author, I don't dismiss EVERY OC because I read a few that bored me to tears. There are some SPLENDID stories out there that get ignored by the rank and file simply because they have an OC in them. Well, pardon the heck out of me. |
I have had people review me who said that they didn't read Captain for the longest time precisely because it did have an OFC in it, and they had been burned by Sues. I suspect it is the dread Mary-Sue that gives OFCs such a hard time. I put an OFC warning on Captain on my HASA summary. If they are really that prejudiced, there's no sense in wasting their time. I find it a little silly that people do think that the inclusion of an OC warrants a warning. Most of what I read and like contains OCs of one sort or another.
| Quote: | | It is a very logical plot device for a female writer to want to put a female, even a self-insertion, into a story that she loves. Most of us have done it at least once, and most of us have a very tender place in our heart for our OC regardless of the quality of the story he or she is in. I would have thought that, knowing how we ourselves feel about our own OCs, that we predominantly female authors would have some compassion for what others are trying to do. |
Ahhhh, but a lot of us keep those self-insertion fics in our dresser drawers, or on file on our hard-drives for a very good reason! And we know why we don't inflict them upon a hapless public, so are wary when someone else is bold enough to post theirs publicly.
| Quote: | | Writing a good OC is a heck of a lot harder than writing a canon character whose history is already written for you. You have to create a background, make sure it is plausible, determine her interaction with canon characters (if necessary) and make her 'real'. That requires work. |
No argument here! And I am about to cruise into heavy OC territory, wherever I go with my next story. It's a very daunting idea. Many people who are otherwise tolerant of an OC or two in a story don't like stories that are predominantly OCs with minimal canon character interaction.
| Quote: | | I have always respected what it took to create a good OC and laud these efforts but it still boggles my mind WHY most readers seem to want to poke out their eyes with hot pokers rather than read a story with an OC. For crying out loud, Tolkien created a whole universe of OCs and we don’t seem to have any trouble with them! |
Again, I don't think most readers do--I've seen too much evidence to the contrary. There are certainly some readers who choose to restrict themselves in that way, and I pity them, because they miss out on probably half of what is the best fanfic out there. |
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Ariel
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Isabeau wrote: | | I saw that one too. It's a sterling example of how you can slant a poll to get the results you desire. I simply didn't complete it. I take it you were going to discuss it on the poll forum? It might not be a bad idea--it probably should be pointed out to the author that all she is going to get is a breakdown of the reasons people who hate OFCs on the site hate them--not necessarily an overview of all the people on the site, and whether they hate them or not. Of course, the first result may have been what she was looking for. |
Bingo. Perhaps the reason she didn't include any kind of way to reply was because she didn't want any discussion. I certainly hope that the dislike of OFCs is not universal - characters like Heth are classics - but it certainly seems like it is 'popular' to come down on them. It burns me, but you can tell that. LOL!
| Isabeau wrote: | | There are those writers out there who limit themselves to purely canonical characters--more power to them, but it ties my hands too much. |
And while there is a lot that can be explored with solely canon characters, after a while it's done. You can only go so far inside of canon, without creating a wild AU (which also takes a lot of work if you want to do it right), before you have completely explored everything. OCs are a logical next choice. ME was populated by THOUSANDS of people. While the canon characters are interesting, they have been done, and often times better than the average fanfic writer could have done them.
| Isabeau wrote: | | I have had people review me who said that they didn't read Captain for the longest time precisely because it did have an OFC in it, and they had been burned by Sues. |
OK... precisely HOW does one get 'burned' by a Sue? I have read lots of bad fic... I tend to dismiss it. Is that a fairly uncommon reaction? I just can't see how one can build up the level of vehemence I sometimes see against OCs. Apathy? Yes, but the intensity of dislike just puzzles me.
| Isabeau wrote: | | Ahhhh, but a lot of us keep those self-insertion fics in our dresser drawers, or on file on our hard-drives for a very good reason! And we know why we don't inflict them upon a hapless public, so are wary when someone else is bold enough to post theirs publicly. |
From a good author, I suspect even a self-insertion would be good! But I'll agree with you on one thing. I have a sorry little SW fanfic that is quite precious to me - I know it sucks but it is me and I'd hate to have anyone shred it - rightfully or no. But I don't hide it away because it is an OC but because it is a poorly written story. I was 14 for crissakes! It was written for me and not for the GP and I have kept it for me. My question is why, when some poor sap doesn't have the ability to look at their work objectively and posts that type of thing, do readers seem to descend like vultures to a carcass? I would think a gentle comment explaining why this type of story is far less interesting to someone else than to the author would suffice. I don't see the need for the animosity.
| Isabeau wrote: | | No argument here! And I am about to cruise into heavy OC territory, wherever I go with my next story. It's a very daunting idea. Many people who are otherwise tolerant of an OC or two in a story don't like stories that are predominantly OCs with minimal canon character interaction. |
If your story is a good one, people should be open to reading it. While I am not terribly interested in Faz, I'm always open to reading good stories, and CMC is a good story. I can see where people who aren't familiar with the tale might balk once you reached total OC territory - but ideally, well written things shouldn't NEED to rely on the previously created characters. Going out on a limb here, but I have to wonder if the folks who will only read canon characters ever read any other original fiction?
| Isabeau wrote: | | Again, I don't think most readers do--I've seen too much evidence to the contrary. There are certainly some readers who choose to restrict themselves in that way, and I pity them, because they miss out on probably half of what is the best fanfic out there. |
*sigh* - I totally agree that they are missing some of the best stories and I do hope you are right that OC dislike is not universal. I have seen little evidence of tolerance for them myself. Although it is also possible that in hobbitfic, OCs are even less welcomed than in other areas. LOL! Of all the OCs I have ever created, my one human is the one people have seemed to like best. It is disheartening, and seems to follow the old adage about women. You have to write your OC twice as well as a canon character fic to have it considered half as good.
Ariel |
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KhazarKhum
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 234
Location: Quartz Hill, CA--USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | *sigh* - I totally agree that they are missing some of the best stories and I do hope you are right that OC dislike is not universal. I have seen little evidence of tolerance for them myself. Although it is also possible that in hobbitfic, OCs are even less welcomed than in other areas. LOL! Of all the OCs I have ever created, my one human is the one people have seemed to like best. It is disheartening, and seems to follow the old adage about women. You have to write your OC twice as well as a canon character fic to have it considered half as good. |
Reading a bad MS can be a true test of pain tolerance.
But that's true for reading any bad fic.
I wasn't too thrilled with that poll, either--for obvious reasons! 
There are people who can't/won't handle the idea that there had to be more than the handful of women in LOTR for ME to have a viable population. There are people whose only interest in ff is to read about a single character. There are even more who will only write about said character.
Part of it, of course, is that the hard work has been done for you: everyone knows what Gandalf is like, so by inserting the name "Gandalf" into the story you don't have to bother with all that messy expositional stuff.
Another part is the idiotic prejudice against fanfic in general. You know the song: "If you're going to do something original, why not just do your own thing?" This ignores that fact that virtually everything written before the late 19th C was really fanfic: the Arthurian legends, for example, have been written and rewritten since the 1100s.
The desire to build and expand on an old story is an ancient one, and why anyone wants to deny this fact is beyond me.
khazar |
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Ariel
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| KhazarKhum wrote: | | The desire to build and expand on an old story is an ancient one, and why anyone wants to deny this fact is beyond me. |
Oh, it is, and for the same reasons too. Any story teller wants to be able to interest a reader quickly - to grab their attention. In the middle ages, well known stories were built on because the performers (usually performing plays or songs) would be getting the audience's interest and enthusiasm by drawing on material that was already understood. Fanfic writers do the same - but building on does not mean never adding a new character. Oh, well, I know you all agree, but that poll did get my dander up - and she didn't have any place listed to comment on it!
Ariel |
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