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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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Location: Looking at shiny things
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 Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | | Having song lyrics introduce a chapter is accepted. Stephen King does this all the time (among other authors). However, in fanfic, a lot of writers insert song lyrics *within the text of the story*... as if it were part of the story. The worst offenders have story characters *sing* modern songs. |
In a modern-day type thing though, would that be okay? I mean, not whole songs but a couple of lines sung by a character? (For humour purposes).
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Viv
Challenge Admin
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceWeavil wrote: | | Viv wrote: | | Having song lyrics introduce a chapter is accepted. Stephen King does this all the time (among other authors). However, in fanfic, a lot of writers insert song lyrics *within the text of the story*... as if it were part of the story. The worst offenders have story characters *sing* modern songs. |
In a modern-day type thing though, would that be okay? I mean, not whole songs but a couple of lines sung by a character? (For humour purposes). |
Pretty much anything done for humour purposes works for me (other than in-jokey things... I don't like those because they exclude). I mean, come on, I had gollum singing "I will survive" in my one and (so far) only songfic.  |
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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Location: Looking at shiny things
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | | Pretty much anything done for humour purposes works for me (other than in-jokey things... I don't like those because they exclude). I mean, come on, I had gollum singing "I will survive" in my one and (so far) only songfic. |
Weird thing with this one is that it's modern day, but modern day Middle Earth as opposed to Modern Day our earth, if that makes sense. I had a little bit at the beginning of the chapter, which I quite liked and thought was mildly (if childishly) amusing, but because I altered the lyrics a bit to make it a sort of 'alternate universe' version of the song, I don't know if it counts as a song parody, or if it would be okay because it's just a bit within a much bigger fic.
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ghettoelleth
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:50 am Post subject: |
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Viv and Ellisk, have I told you lately how incredibly sexy you are when you agree with me? 
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ZeeDrippyVessel
Joined: 11 May 2003
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Location: deep south
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:04 pm Post subject: ***waves hand*** |
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Seeing how I'm probably the biggest 'offender' with inserted lyrics and stuff, I might as well add my two cents worth.
Personally, I'm not at all put off by it. I'm put off when the lyrics DON"T fit... or there are too many. I have learned to stick with a quick shot, 4 lines.
I have no problem with modern day lyrics, IF there is a reason. iN my case, I have the DREADED modern day woman who is a musician. But in some places, older back as far as the 15th century music was used WHEN it was appropriate.
Tolkien used poetry and lyrics. I was VERY taken by the fact that when Iluvatar created the world and the Valar, he sang. He used Music. The Valar sang and used music to create the beautiful things. The Elves sing ALL the time! (Contrary to popular belief, I have read the trilogy and the Hobbit and the first few installments of the Histories. Working my way....)
I have been raked over the coals for using music the way I do. I have also been thanked for this one, that one. The one that sticks out in my mind the most was the teenager who emailed me and said - I was so struck by Haldir's overwhelmed feelings of being swept downriver by "The Moldau". I had never heard of it so I downloaded it. It took an hour but it was AWESOME!! Where can I find more of this guys stuff?
You know, people can make fun of my silly "Bardess Sue".  Go ahead. I'm a music teacher and if ONE person enjoyed it and found something new they like, then I did my job... today.
Ah. The world is soooo rosy when seen through the shades of Percoset.
 
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Viv
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Joined: 24 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: ***waves hand*** |
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| ZeeDrippyVessel wrote: | | Tolkien used poetry and lyrics. I was VERY taken by the fact that when Iluvatar created the world and the Valar, he sang. He used Music. |
This is a great point. In a sense, LoTR itself is a bit of a songfic, what with all those songs inserted full-length in the middle of the text. Granted, I know a lot of people who skipped them  but they still add a dimension beyond the straight text, and I think that's what the prof was going for. Your "Bardess Sue" does the same thing, so you could make a rich argument for her stories being more Tolkienesque than most fic.
My avoidance of song lyrics is a personal preference; I don't expect everyone to share it (and rather hope they don't). But yes, I was one of those Tolkien fans who skipped the songs the first time I read through. Especially those too-silly tra-la-lally things. |
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ZeeDrippyVessel
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 144
Location: deep south
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: ***waves hand*** |
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| Viv wrote: | | ZeeDrippyVessel wrote: | | Tolkien used poetry and lyrics. I was VERY taken by the fact that when Iluvatar created the world and the Valar, he sang. He used Music. |
This is a great point. In a sense, LoTR itself is a bit of a songfic, what with all those songs inserted full-length in the middle of the text. Granted, I know a lot of people who skipped them but they still add a dimension beyond the straight text, and I think that's what the prof was going for. Your "Bardess Sue" does the same thing, so you could make a rich argument for her stories being more Tolkienesque than most fic.
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I"m the weirdo in the bunch. I admit I had NEVER read Tolkien until I saw the first movie... at the dollar theater of all places in JULY! But I went out and bought the trilogy that weekend because I COULDN"T WAIT to see the rest and know what happend. Granted, I read it really fast and am now going back and rereading in more depth and detail.
And I open them up and there is ALL THIS MUSIC! It was a dream!  And so, yeah... I DON"T get it when certain people go off on her over it.
Now, if I could get it through their skulls that she isn't SINGING everything...
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Yavanie
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Zee,
personally like Bardess-sue and the song lyrics and yeah i get it she wasn't singing them either. don't know all the artists but just gotta go check out RunRig. got a gift cert to a music store for christmas. Thanks for introducing me to them at least.
(PS also have the Tristan and Isolde piece somewhere, after you referenced it had to go put it on)
so in other words, keep it up.
PS, love the thought thingy you're doing wiht our favorite Rohirran rider.
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...I understand the sadness of the Elves, and I have seen Mordor.
To be older and wiser you must first be younger and stupider. |
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ZeeDrippyVessel
Joined: 11 May 2003
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Location: deep south
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Yavanie wrote: | Zee,
personally like Bardess-sue and the song lyrics and yeah i get it she wasn't singing them either. don't know all the artists but just gotta go check out RunRig. got a gift cert to a music store for christmas. Thanks for introducing me to them at least.
(PS also have the Tristan and Isolde piece somewhere, after you referenced it had to go put it on)
so in other words, keep it up.
PS, love the thought thingy you're doing wiht our favorite Rohirran rider. |
One person likes me! YAY! (just kidding!)
You MIGHT have problems with RunRig, unless you are in England. They are a Scottish group and I've not been able to find their stuff here. What I ahve - 4 Albums, they have I believe 20 - were gifts, sent to me from a friend in England. The only place I've seen their things are on ebay or amazon. But they ARE awesome!
As I recall, I mentioned 2 DIFFERENT Tristan and Isolde pieces... the traditional Wagner piece - - (and this belongs on the OTHER music thread, I find it VERY erotic) and also Andreas Vollenweider from his Aeolean Harp CD. Check HIM out - you should find him in Jazz or New Age... he's a harpist and just fantabulous. Gorgeous stuff! My son was concieved to one of his albums (Down to the Moon) 
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ZeeDrippyVessel wrote: |
One person likes me! YAY! (just kidding!)
You MIGHT have problems with RunRig, unless you are in England. They are a Scottish group and I've not been able to find their stuff here. What I ahve - 4 Albums, they have I believe 20 - were gifts, sent to me from a friend in England. The only place I've seen their things are on ebay or amazon. But they ARE awesome!
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You can get their albums in Scotland as well, usually fairly cheap. Certainly I'd've thought they'd be on Amazon UK. My local record shop here has loads of them. Haven't really been into them since high school, but my Granddad used to really like them.
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ZeeDrippyVessel
Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Yavanie wrote: | Zee,
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PS, love the thought thingy you're doing wiht our favorite Rohirran rider. |
Someday i will learn to wait before I hit "Send".
Thanks for reminding me I need to reconfigure the 1st chapter. That has been a NEAT experiment. Sitting in Gamling's head has just been fun. He's really QUITE complex. Chapters might slow down for a bit - I've been posting religiously on Monday, but I have been fighting pneumonia and bronchitis since before Christmas and spent time in the hospital last week, (my son is taking care of me instead of vice versa...) so my writing is like... sooooooo behind...
And if I get ONE more email about Tel' Lindar... I actually had to put up a author's note at AFF. I'm really hoping by late February it'll be going again. 
OMG! This thread has been hijacked! I"m so SORRY!!!! 
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Bay
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Zee, if we sent you some chicken soup and a case of Zicam, would that help? Just dying to see what happens with Gamling.
(You're blond? That's so, so....Rohirri) |
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Bay
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I meant Rohirric |
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ZeeDrippyVessel
Joined: 11 May 2003
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Location: deep south
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| Bay wrote: | | (You're blond? That's so, so....Rohirric) |
No. I'm as dark headed as Elrond.
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daw
Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:39 am Post subject: |
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I have to admit that I pretty much never read song fics, and if I happen to be reading a story with song lyrics in it, I skip them. The major problem I have is that I almost never know the song, so I don't "hear" the lyrics well. If the story is depending on the song lyrics for any of its punch, I miss it. I think a lot of the emotion of a song comes from the music too, and the words just seem flat to me and usually don't scan well as poetry.
But then, I skipped the songs in Tolkien too when I first read him. I didn't like them until I listened to the trilogy and The Hobbit on audio books. Then I could get the sound of the song in my head. |
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