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Dunedain, Northern Ranger, not Dunedain Ranger of the North

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NancyBrooke
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rhapsody wrote:
NancyBrooke wrote:
I think one could draw an imaginary distinction between rangers and Rangers ...
Yeps, but that still doesn't rule out that there might have been rangers as in military rank in Arnor.

I agree.

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Vilwarin



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm, I one made a research, and though it will not help here, I want topost it anyway *lol*

...But what is their task? Well, in the chapter “The council of Elrond” Aragorn gives us a good idea of what they do. Eriador seems to be a very dangerous place. A thoughtless wanderer might encounter “foes that would freeze his heart”, Orcs, ghosts, wolves and whatnots. So they wander about Eriador, being “… hunters ever of the servants of the Enemy”, safeguarding the remaining population of their ancient kingdom.
The Encyclopaedia Americana tells us this: Originally, ‘ranger’ was the English title for the keeper of a royal forest, responsible for the protection of its game and timber.
Beginning in the 18th century, the term also was used to designate a member of a certain military unit.
In the course of the British colonization of North America it became evident that special military units, recruited among experienced frontiersmen, were needed in the constant irregular warfare against Indian, French, and Spanish raiders. These habitually were termed “rangers”.
Ranger missions were normally long-range penetrations into enemy held territory (often in winter) to collect information or destroy enemy bases. During major campaigns, rangers scouted ahead of the main army and screened its flanks and rear. Because of the constant hardship and danger involved, they drew higher pay than other troops and usually were distinctively uniformed.
The Rangers of the North may have been a mixture of both types.
Tolkien states that the Dúnedain lived in the Angle between the rivers Bruinen and Mitheithel, which would have been in Rhudaur. So the Rangers might have been a body of the Dúnedain warriors charged with patrolling Eriador, specifically with policing the highways. Though they could not maintain their own court and prison system, they could support the local authorities. Furthermore, by maintaining the Rangers, the Dúnedain could still claim lordship to all of Eriador.
So what does such a Ranger do all day? Tolkien does not tell us, but he implies that they do a lot of wandering. Aragorn tells us the following in “the council of Elrond”: “I have had a hard life and a long; and the leagues that lie between [Rivendell] and Gondor (which would have been almost a thousand miles) are a small part of my journeys.” Since rangers are not very numerous as we learn in “At the sign of the Prancing Pony”, it would have been necessary to move a lot if one wants to cover the amount of space Eriador provides. Furthermore, Aragorn implies that they do not normally work in groups “Lonely men are we, Rangers of the North.” ...

~Vil

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Rhapsody



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically: what are the actual resources from this coming from Tolkien's works Vilwarin. I know Ghettoelleth wants primary sources and not secondary sources.
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ghettoelleth



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NancyBrooke wrote:
Lots of ideas, Idea no actual facts. Confused
Although we discussed it at length on this forum a while ago I continue to wonder about that link between the Northern rangers and the Ithilien rangers. The most likely explanation (completely unsupported) is that "ranger" is a military term, originally referring to a soldier mostly used for reconnaisance or covert action, seemingly in woodland settings. Clearly, they are organized in groups, detachments or something. Use in the North might have broadened to a more hereditary thing, e.g. "When you grow up son, you can become a ranger, just like me."
This is sort of what I thought, like different factions of the army. Foor soldiers, artillerty, engineers (the kind that find landmines), that was my assumption. Then I remembered, is the army's equivelent of the Green Beret's called the Rangers?

Quote:
That quote:
Quote:
The remnants of the Dunedain of the North become rangers and errants

is particularly interesting to me for the word "errant." That implies to me a solitary pursuit, not the organized action we get glimpses of, but general-go-around-doing-good-dogooder types at any rate.
[/quote]
Is that what that means? So is that why Galahad was a knight errant? Cuz he was always on his own. I just thought it meant he was off running errands, you know, dragon-*lance* black knight-*stabstab* Stop for milk. Makes sense when you think about Halbarad having to round them all up for the grey company though. It didn't give the impression that they all lived in the same apt complex and hung out at the pool together. There is something I remembering about a quote where someone is met on the old road and talks about how the rangers have watched the shire since the sacking of amon sul or the fall of the north kingdom and that the Hobbits are totally unaware of it. This conversation has come to my mind several times starting with another question asked in the book forum. I wish I could remember who the heck it is. Gads, hope it wasn't Trotter. I hate that guy.

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ghettoelleth



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duchess wrote:
I think one could draw an imaginary distinction between rangers and Rangers. Rhapsody's quote implies to me that after the diaspora, as it were, the Arnorians as a group became unaffiliated, unorganized, roving do-gooders. At least initially. Perhaps "Ranger" was the military term that most closely related to their actions, or the most organized among them had been Rangers or ... anyway. Imagine the situation - Arnor is now scattered bands of refugees. In the first years or generations, there couldn't have been much unity. It's conceiveable, even that pockets of survivors didn't have much contact, if any, with other pockets of survivors. But they have heritage, and pride, and from that comes duty centered around the Chieftain


I read another (secondary) work by Michael Martinez that spoke about the necessity of the assignment of the Rangers to maintain a certain level of peace and to protect ordinary citizens having something to do with the line of kings maintaining their claim to the throne. In otherwords, had the king abandoned Eriador to its own resources it might have essentially amounted to abdicating or simply treason or mutiny, whichever that would be, can you have a land mutiny? essentially relinquishing any claim they might have had to the throne altogether.

Disclaimer: Michael Martinez is a brilliant man. However, I believe his strength runs more along the lines of gap filler. Making ingenius conjecture regarding blanks in the canon by using historical data, facts, etc. to deduce the logical course of how things might have been had Tolkien finished one or two of his UTs. He is a wonderful resource I use him alot for assistance in visualizing what life at that time would have been like. He gave me Mithlond where all I had was a really heavily filtered image of an abandoned Disneyland ride. His theories and conclusions, however are not canon.

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Rhapsody



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am scouring through my books for army notes (the geeky things). I think to understand how the Arnor and the Gondor army worked, you have to look also how the Numenoreans organised their armies. I think what also might be interesting to look at is how militiamen are defined and how the Gondor lords (at least) made use of them.
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ghettoelleth



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vilwaren wrote:
Furthermore, by maintaining the Rangers, the Dúnedain could still claim lordship to all of Eriador.
Yeah, that's what I was talking about having heard. So it was a historical thing. Good job Vil, This is all helpful and interesting stuff. same with the rangers being an actual job in the military, like infantryman or paratrooper. An actual job title.

Quote:
So what does such a Ranger do all day?
Silly Rabbit, they range... Shocked

Very Happy Sorry, Al's line but I couldn't resist.

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