[Maram68]

[Thuriniel]

[quote="Viv"]

[Cormak]

[quote="Thuriniel"]

[Lossefalme01]

I was thinking more on the subject of Legomances and MS's today and came to one of my points about what makes a GOOD Legomance: "one that breaks all cliches". The more I thought abou this, the more I thought it was just impossible. What I mean by that is this:

Let's say you have an OFC who is a pretty stubborn and willfull gal, and naturally wishes to fight in all the battles. Thus she strongly states her case to the men about the fact she wants to fight, much as Eowyn did in the books. Now, already having this much in your story can make your character cliche, and by some people's definitions, a Mary Sue.

So. You're already saddled with an MS. Now, your girl either gets permission to fight (still cliche), or she doesn't (probably more canon). BUT... if she doesn't get to fight, you then have more choices. She either sneaks out and fights anyway (cliched again) or she doesn't (er... has that actually ever happened in a fic?)

If your OFC isn't very strong willed and DOESN'T want to fight, but would prefer the men to do the fighting, instead of being praised for having a character that's truthfully more realistic to Tolkien's world, you are said to have another Mary Sue type character, because now she is too weak to fight and the men must protect her.

Do you see the difficulty here? Of course, this is only through my experiences, so maybe you others have had better ones, but I find it just slightly frustrating that it seems no matter what you do with your OFC she's cliched and labeled an MS. That's why I was very curious to find out what other people thought made a GOOD Legomance. I would have to agree also though that the key components that make up a good story are really all the same for any type of fanfiction... I just thought I'd raise the question for some specifics of Legomances since so far that's all I've written!

[sindohte]

I enjoy reading a well written story plain and simple. When it comes to Legomances I do not think there is any special set of criteria that needs to be developed for that genre separate from any other particular branch of Tolkien based fanfics. One thing that I have noticed in reading stories about Legolas that involve OFCs, there is the tendency for authors to focus too heavily on the romance portion of the story while forgetting about the action side of things. Certainly love or lust can spring up in unexpected places such as on the battlefield, but it would not cause Legolas and female Ranger, etc., to throw all caution to the wind and start shagging each other while they are supposed to be on patrol guarding their camp against Orcs. What I want to read is a story about Legolas that is also romantic, rather than a romance that happens to have Legolas in it.

[Cormak]

[sindohte]

Hmm, Legolas must be on the brain today because I have another thought to share about the fair haired one. Legolas fanfics seem to be hampered by the fact that a large number of writers (myself & Roisin included) have done stories where the OFC meets up with Legolas during the events leading up to the War of the Ring. And that is just such a small time period from Legolas's life as a whole. Why haven't more writers done stories featuring Legolas and an OFC in the days prior to the WotR or during the 4th Age?

Perhaps one reason critics of Legomances attack the stories in general is that there were truly not that many instances of women going off to battle and fighting side by side with the men. Certainly Eowyn was a notable exception, but she still had to sneak off to join her uncle and brother. In our story, Roisin and I speculated that a small number of female Rangers would be part of the Grey company and did a blurb at the beginning making note of the fact that the role of women in history was often forgotten and we were writing about a lost period from Legolas's life.

Would there be less cries of Mary Sue from critics, if writers wrote stories about Legolas having a relationship with an OFC either prior or after the WotR?

Now that I reflect upon things a bit more closely, it is difficult to develop a credible story featuring the events of the WotR and a romance between Legolas and his love interest. I am not saying that it cannot be done, because I have read some good examples hosted here at OSA for instance, but I have encountered many more examples of poorly done action/romances.

And why is there such a proliferation of WotR based Legomances? Can we lay the blame at the feet of Peter Jackson for picking Orlando Bloom to play the role of Legolas and thus spawning the slew of stories?

[Cormak]

Part of the reason I wrote a Legomance was because of who he was cast as in the movie. The other part was because I love his character in the book and he doesn't really get much of a background. We know who his father and grandfather are, but we don't know his mother or if he ever loved anyone.

It's interesting that you brought up about the time frame issue. It's certainly very true that most writers put their stories at the time of the War of the Ring. Part of that might be because they are interested in acquiring readers. Most people lose interest in stories that are made up of one canon character and all original characters UNLESS they write those OCs really well. A lot of readers want to see Aragorn, Gandalf, Frodo and the other hobbits in the story because they relate to those characters more. Daw the Minstril from Stories of Arda is an example of someone who has written stories that have taken place at a time not usually written about and her stories are FULL of OCs that are really interesting. Her stories are not Legomances but Legolas does feature in them.

I have a Legomance fic outlined after I finish MF that hopefully will be very different from what has been done, but we'll see how that works out.

[sindohte]

[SpaceWeavil]

[Cormak]

THat's certainly a very good point about not wanting to flesh out the characters. (This is a great discussion, btw. Really gets the mind thinking!) Impatience is a BIG part of it. You don't know how many people I have hounding me for Legolas and my OC to kiss and get it on. I"ve written 29 chapters and they haven't done anything yet. I've actually lost readers because it hasn't happened soon enough. So impatience is definitely there! You see lots of stories where the romance happens really quickly because the writers and the pressure from readers causes them to write quickly instead of taking time and letting things take their course.

I do believe a big part of it is because many authors want reviews. So many people are review mongers. Reviews and feedback is what makes them write. They leave the sort of Author's Notes that say "If you like this story review and it will make me update faster" or "Review or I won't write anymore." That sort of attitude is all over ff.net as well as other places. While it's nice to tally up reviews it's nicer to improve your writing.

[SpaceWeavil]

That’s a good point about reviews. Each time I check my new Gríma story and see the ‘0’ review thing or see that it’s had no readers since the last time I checked two days ago or whatever, there is a temptation to just give up and write something people will actually look at. That attitude of ‘review or I don’t write any more’ is a pain though. Sure, you want people to review. It’s one of the best ways to spot flaws in your work and get them sorted, thus improving as a writer, but if that’s the only reason you write, should you really bother?

This is a good thread though, as it has got the neurones firing I might actually get around to redrafting my Legolas story here (non-romance though), and having seen what not to do, I might think again about doing the sequel I plotted.

[Viv]

True Confession Time...

1. My Legomance is NC-17 from paragraph 5, and the right-off-the-bat explicit smut is a major plot point. Is is salvagable?

2. When I read one of those "If you don't review, I won't write any more!" things, I immediately stop reading, delete the notepad review I'd been working on, and add that writer to my super-secret list of Ficwriters I Will Never Read Again.

3. I rarely review a story if the writer of that story hasn't left at least one review on this archive. Those folks who post their stories and then just sit back and wait for the reviews to roll in squick me. If you're gonna beg, at least give.

(Hey, at least point #1 was on topic...)

[Thuriniel]

[Roisin]