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miriel361
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 417
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 Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:14 am Post subject: Need help with Sindarin. |
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I don't speak Sindarin - at times I have trouble with the English language.
The last few days I've been trying to find the Sindarin word for 'yes' and can't seem to find it in any dictionary. I've found the word for 'no' ( baw).
Can anyone help? |
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sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
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Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Miriel - the word for "yes" is ai.
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miriel361
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:47 am Post subject: |
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aye really?
Thanks Sin, you are my saviour. Can now go back to Eöl and say "Ai, ai, ai!!!"
Oh my dear, do you realise you can say that word very well while panting? |
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sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
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Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:53 am Post subject: |
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That's why I figured that you needed to know the translation 
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:53 am Post subject: |
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As I recall, there is no word for "yes" in Sindarin ... ... where does "ai" come from?
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:04 am Post subject: |
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'Ai', as far as I know, is a kind of general exclamation that can mean 'Hail' (from Quenya 'AIA') or 'behold' or 'hark' or that sort of thing, (as in Legolas' 'Ai, Ai, a Balrog..etc.)
I didn't think there was a word for 'yes' in Sindarin, because I remember when I was learning that I had to copy Gaelic. They don 't actually have a word for 'yes' but would answer a question by 'it is' or if you said, for instance, 'can you speak sindarin?' they would say 'speak it' to answer in the positive. I figured Sindarin would do the same.
If we're talking in a 'bedroom' sense, I suppose you could quite well shout 'Ai', as it does lend itself well to the throes of passion.  But I don't think it is 'yes' strictly speaking. I may be wrong on that and will graciously admit as much if anyone finds other references 
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:11 am Post subject: |
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OK, I get it now ... it's sort of early here. Brain still asleep.
One of the most puzzling things about learning Sindarin was to deal with the fact that there are no real words for "yes" and "no", although you can negate with "avo" and so on.
I like the "ai" idea ... I should've known ... "Ai, ai a Balrog!"  . One of my fave Leggy lines! I always laugh because "ay!" -- pronounced the same as "ai" -- means "ouch" in Spanish ... "Ouch, ouch a Balrog!" Very fitting if you ask me  .
I'm rambling. I better go.
Thanks for clarifying that SW!
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~ boe an phân pedi ‘lam dadui ~
~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
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ghettoelleth
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 1804
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Thuriniel,
I have two excellent resources for Sindarin. One has a generator that you can use to type in the word you are looking for in english and it will pull up a dictionary style reference of the word in Sindarin. The other is repleat witn information regarding masc. and fem. pronouns, verb conjugation, etc. If you would like the links, PM me and I will send them to you.
Incidently, the word ay, in spanish is an expression of dismay as in "oh dear". I should know, my mother ay ay ay's me everytime we have a conversation and I go off track and start rambling....did someone say their OC was gonna do a balrog?
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miriel361
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Okay so how would I respond to a question like, "Would you like something to drink"
Anirach sog?
??
Or as affirmation that a learner were using the right word?
Sog? Holds pitcher of water in his hand.
Sog? she queries, pointing at the pitcher.
??
I pass this on to the experts. |
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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So to ask someone if they would like something to drink...
you could ask something like , 'sogathach?' (will you drink?) or Anirach sogo (would you like to drink, as you said)
As a reply, you could say 'aniran' (I would like to) to either of those. Or a nod and 'hannon le' (yes, thanks)
Something like that maybe? Hope that's helpful. Again if anyone finds something that contradicts what I have just said, please let me know. I know that, with Sindarin materials downloaded from the internet, you can only trust the information so far.
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Leila
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| ghettoelleth wrote: | Thuriniel,
I have two excellent resources for Sindarin. One has a generator that you can use to type in the word you are looking for in english and it will pull up a dictionary style reference of the word in Sindarin. The other is repleat witn information regarding masc. and fem. pronouns, verb conjugation, etc. If you would like the links, PM me and I will send them to you.
Incidently, the word ay, in spanish is an expression of dismay as in "oh dear". I should know, my mother ay ay ay's me everytime we have a conversation and I go off track and start rambling....did someone say their OC was gonna do a balrog? |
Thanks, I already have a couple of dictionaries (Dragon Flame and the ones from Council of Elrond) and have taken Sindarin 101 ... I have all the lessons printed so they're always handy !
I know about all the many uses of "ay!". I'm a native speaker myself . I hail from Spain. Olé !
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~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| miriel361 wrote: | Okay so how would I respond to a question like, "Would you like something to drink"
Anirach sog?
??
I pass this on to the experts. |
I'm not sure I'm an expert, but sometimes I like to dream I am  .
I'm assuming that "Anírach sog" means "would you wish a drink?"
If that's the case, then sog mutates to hog because it's a direct object pronoun and D.O. pronouns suffer soft mutation. So the translation would be:
"Anírach hog?"
Now, if you want something like "Would you wish to drink?" Then you would need to translate it as "would you wish drinking?" since Sindarin tends to use the gerund form rather than the infinitive. So the translation would be:
"Anírach sogad?"
Now the trick is deciding ... would the gerund mutate? My guess is yes, so you would end up with:
"Anírach hogad?"
Onto the next question ... I agree with SpaceWeavil, I think a reaffirmation would work as a "yes-answer". So, I would respond with "aníran." Answering back with "aníran" or even a "le hannon" would be appropiate.
(Trivia fact: "hannon le" is used in the movies, but apparently is incorrect. The prounoun "le" comes from Quenya and it only appears in the texts preceeding the verb. Personally, I like better how "hannon le" flows ... but then I'm so picky about grammar that once I learned "hannon le" was "ify" grammatically speaking, I stopped using it).
Hope this helped ... it's a nice break from rambling about Spanish grammar to my students !
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~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| Leila wrote: | I couldn't find any sites with a Sindarin word for yes, but i did find three sites with Sindarin word(s) for no and NONE of them are the same:
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I swear by Council of Elrond when it comes to Sindarin. And Dragonflame is pretty good too, but I've found discrepancies there sometimes.
All the "no" expressions I've seen in your links seem correct to me. "Ú-" is a prefix, same with "al-", and finally "avo" (means "don't" to be used with imperatives) and "baw" that means "don't/no."
Note that the prefixes don't really mean "no" per se ... they just help negate. You cannot use a prefix all in its own, it needs to be attached to another word .
Let me know if I missed any ... there was one page I couldn't access.
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~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
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sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:51 am Post subject: |
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This is the website where I found the translation for the word "yes." For those of you who are not interested in slash, just click on the Elvish link and then select the Sindarin phrasebook. It has some everyday conversational type of stuff and phases of a more interesting nature http://www.hithanaur.net/
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