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Alassante
Virtual Village Mod
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 20
Location: Hitchhiking to Rivendell
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 Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:54 pm Post subject: Question about plurals: Ellon/Ellyn Elleth/Ellith |
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If one is an elleth and more are ellith, it would be proper to say three ellith rather than three elleth. Right? I was trying to think in terms of woman/women/three women but I wasn't sure if it was the same.
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JayofLasgalen
Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Posts: 83
Location: Devon, England
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Not quite. The correct plural of elleth is ellyth. In Elvish, the final vowel is changed to a 'y' in the plural.
Jay |
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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Actually ... (geeky rant coming up ...  ) ...
When you're forming the plural, every syllable suffers a different change depending on the vowel and the position of the syllable in the word.
For example, in final syllables, "e" changes to "i":
Elleth > ellith
If the final syllable has an "o", then it changes to "y":
Mellon > mellyn
Ellon > ellyn
You also need to differenciate between non-final syllables and final syllables. For example,
Craban: crow/raven
If you want to say crows/ravens, then you do this:
Check your plural chart. Non-final syllables with an "a" change to "e", while final syllables with an "a" change to "ai" ...
"Craban" > crebain
... thus we get Leggy's shout:
"Crebain from Dunland!"
And eveyone hides! As I'm going to do right now for sounding so full of myself! 
Jay ... I wish Sindarin was as easy as always changing to "y" to form the plural  .
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Question about plurals: Ellon/Ellyn Elleth/Ellith |
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| Alassante wrote: | | If one is an elleth and more are ellith, it would be proper to say three ellith rather than three elleth. Right? I was trying to think in terms of woman/women/three women but I wasn't sure if it was the same. |
... min elleth, tad ellith, neled ellith ...
... one elleth, two ellith, three ellith ...
... don't use "elleths" I'm begging you ! I did it once and I almost died of shame when beta reader pointed it out to me  !
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~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
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Panneth
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 0
Location: Manchester/London
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| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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I always thought that numbers were treated as adjectives and went after the noun?
Happy New Year!
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
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| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Panneth wrote: | I always thought that numbers were treated as adjectives and went after the noun?
Happy New Year! |
I wondered who would pick that one out! Good job  ! I thought about it ... but I was too tired to start mutating. Then I started wondering if numbers should really be treated as adjectives. They really don't describe the noun, only tell you amount.
If we're talking ordinal numbers, however, then I can see how they would work as adjectives.
So I pondered and pondered ... and next thing you know I took the easy way out !
Since you've corraborated my suspicions, then I guess we could safely conclude that numbes are always treated as adjectives in Sindarin, thus the correct translation should be:
... elleth vin, ellith dad, ellith neled ...
Thanks Ems and Happy New Year to you too!
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~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
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Panneth
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
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Location: Manchester/London
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| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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The only reason I know is when we did the translation project my paragraph had numbers in it 
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
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| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Panneth wrote: | | The only reason I know is when we did the translation project my paragraph had numbers in it |
Which one ... Nimrodel or the Silmarillion  ?
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~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
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ghettoelleth
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 1804
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| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Thuriniel wrote: | | Panneth wrote: | I always thought that numbers were treated as adjectives and went after the noun?
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... elleth vin, ellith dad, ellith neled ... |
You two have never been sexier than at this very moment. I was sitting here, banging my head against the desk trying to figure out with just my little dragon flame application (I have far less skills than you two):
ephedyn tad?...tad ephedyn?...ephedyn tad? two(omg, I ran back in here so fast to fix this, please tell me they didn't see the typo, pleasepleasepleaseohplease) ephedyn? My head was pounding so I came in here to look at a pm and check posts. Lo and behold...Goddesses of the Ardalambion, I SALUTE YOU! 
thanx bunches,
Jes
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| ghettoelleth wrote: | | Thuriniel wrote: | | Panneth wrote: | I always thought that numbers were treated as adjectives and went after the noun?
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... elleth vin, ellith dad, ellith neled ... |
You two have never been sexier than at this very moment. I was sitting here, banging my head against the desk trying to figure out with just my little dragon flame application (I have far less skills than you two):
ephedyn tad?...tad ephedyn?...ephedyn tad? two(omg, I ran back in here so fast to fix this, please tell me they didn't see the typo, pleasepleasepleaseohplease) ephedyn? My head was pounding so I came in here to look at a pm and check posts. |
I always knew that being a geek had its sexy side ! I'm glad that our ramblings help others ... I always worry to go off topic  .
One thing about your translation. Remember that if you treat numbers as adjectives, they do need to lenit/mutate. So the correct translation for "two followers" would be:
ephedyn dad
Hope this helps! Don't bang your head about Sindarin ... if you encounter problems, pm'me ! I might actually know the answer.
| gettoelleth wrote: | Lo and behold...Goddesses of the Ardalambion, I SALUTE YOU!
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I like that ... Goddesses of the Ardalambion!
My geeky side is basking right now ... especially with the AC/DC reference !
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~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
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