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poolbum
Joined: 21 May 2004
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 Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:57 pm Post subject: elvish coronations |
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Hi. I'm writing a fic for a friend which involves an elvish coronation. Knowing her, she'll kill me if I fudge it and only hit the last three seconds. I was wondering what they'd do, or - since there's probably not all that much information out there - what you think I'd be like.
I live in America, so all I'm familiar with is all the friggin' debates that goes on around elections, so I'm completely in the dark about it. The only good thing is that my friend is just as in the dark.
Thanks in advance,
Me
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SpaceWeavil
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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I couldn't find any information on this when I came to write a coronation scene for my story 'The Rest is Silence', so I actually based most of it on the coronation ceremony used here in the UK. I tweaked the oaths and such to fit in with the history of the Greenwood elves, but that is what it was based on.
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Viv
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Since elves don't die natural deaths, ascension pretty much means that somebody important has just died a tragic and violent death, usually in war. I can't see that there'd be much cause for pomp and circumstance.
For instance, I can't see Fingolfin, after hearing the news that Feanor had died a flaming death and Maedhros was too angst-ridden to take the sceptre, instantly commissioning a jeweled tiara and throwing a party.
Any elven coronation would have to take into account that the succession was from one de facto immortal to another, so in all instances an unnatural and traumatic event.
Last edited by Viv on Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SpaceWeavil
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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If I remember rightly, the way I did it was to have a mixture of remembrance ceremony and oath-taking, that was written specifically for Thranduil's coronation, because, as Viv says, such a thing shouldn't happen naturally to the elves.
So basically, you could do something similar. Say that the ceremony was written specifically for that event and tailor your ceremony to whatever's happened.
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NancyBrooke
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Might an Elf step down, as it were? abdicate in favor of a child, someone younger.
I know, doesn't really answer your question.
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SpaceWeavil
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| NancyBrooke wrote: | Might an Elf step down, as it were? abdicate in favor of a child, someone younger.
I know, doesn't really answer your question. |
Well the one thing that sprang to my mind was, what would happen if their king sailed West? Like if Thranduil decided to go before Legolas (I know it didn't happen like that, but I'm just illustrating what I mean). Then I would think there would be some sort of ceremony.
And the totally  thought has just occurred that I'm going to have to do a Numenorean coronation soon. yay, hadn't thought about that. 
Sorry, digressing. I think an elven ceremony of that sort would be so unusual that it would be geared to the event at hand, so if, as Nancy suggested, there was a time when someone decided to abdicate or sail west or something, then they would construct something for that moment, because it just wouldn't happen regularly.
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Viv
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceWeavil wrote: | | Sorry, digressing. I think an elven ceremony of that sort would be so unusual that it would be geared to the event at hand, so if, as Nancy suggested, there was a time when someone decided to abdicate or sail west or something, then they would construct something for that moment, because it just wouldn't happen regularly. |
I like the idea of unique events, when they were necessary. I'd forgotten about Oropher taking the throne in Mirkwood from basically nobody (wasn't he the first kind of the woodland elves?). That might have been a happy occassion, in stark contrast to, for instance, Gil-Galad's ascension. So yeah, every coronation would be different.
And that what-would-happen-if-Thranduil-sailed-west is a fairly intriguing plotbunny.  |
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SpaceWeavil
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | | SpaceWeavil wrote: | | Sorry, digressing. I think an elven ceremony of that sort would be so unusual that it would be geared to the event at hand, so if, as Nancy suggested, there was a time when someone decided to abdicate or sail west or something, then they would construct something for that moment, because it just wouldn't happen regularly. |
I like the idea of unique events, when they were necessary. I'd forgotten about Oropher taking the throne in Mirkwood from basically nobody (wasn't he the first kind of the woodland elves?). That might have been a happy occassion, in stark contrast to, for instance, Gil-Galad's ascension. So yeah, every coronation would be different.
And that what-would-happen-if-Thranduil-sailed-west is a fairly intriguing plotbunny. |
Yeah, Oropher started up the realm and was the first king as far as I know. When I was doing mine, I had a few mentions though of Thingol and Doriath and all that, since the ruling classes of the Woodland Elves were meant to be Sindar, and from there.
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NancyBrooke
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | | I like the idea of unique events, when they were necessary. I'd forgotten about Oropher taking the throne in Mirkwood from basically nobody (wasn't he the first kind of the woodland elves?). That might have been a happy occassion, in stark contrast to, for instance, Gil-Galad's ascension. So yeah, every coronation would be different. |
Your interest aside it's imaginable that every coronation could follow a set ritual, too. When Queen Elizabeth became Queen it was at the death of her father, yet the ceremony was about her not him and so just the same as always.
I think you could go either way.
NB still not really helping
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SpaceWeavil
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| NancyBrooke wrote: | | Viv wrote: | | I like the idea of unique events, when they were necessary. I'd forgotten about Oropher taking the throne in Mirkwood from basically nobody (wasn't he the first kind of the woodland elves?). That might have been a happy occassion, in stark contrast to, for instance, Gil-Galad's ascension. So yeah, every coronation would be different. |
Your interest aside it's imaginable that every coronation could follow a set ritual, too. When Queen Elizabeth became Queen it was at the death of her father, yet the ceremony was about her not him and so just the same as always.
I think you could go either way.
NB still not really helping |
Yeah but even in the UK coronation, which has been around for over a millennia, the ceremony used in 1953 is almost completely unrecognisable from the one in, say, 1066 for William I. (actually, his involved a massacre, so maybe that wasn't a good example to use  ) Even in a ceremony used as often as that, they had to change things to suit the times and political circumstances etc. So although there were basic principles that generally would be found, for instance there would be some sort of oath and the presentation of some sort of regalia, the actual details have been different almost every time.
I see what you mean though that there would be some set things that would have to be done, like, as I've said, the oath and the presentation of the new monarch to the people, with perhaps the handing over of some symbolic regalia, that would form the basis of the coronation, but again I reckon that such an event would be so rare in elvendom, that they would work that stuff out at the time as well, if you see what I mean.
Somewhere like Gondor on the other hand, with mortal kings, would definitely have a 'set' ceremony just slightly adapted, as the British ones are now, to deal with changes in individual circumstances. IMO anyway.
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