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NancyBrooke
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 Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:20 am Post subject: Capitalization question |
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I have read a lot of stories recently that encourage me to ask:
Is it proper to capitalize a noun used as a name substitute? What's right?
Get out of my way, Father.
Not until you do your homework, son.
Do that gain, my love.
Anytime, Sweetums.
Yo, Babe, get me another drink.
Get off your a** and get it yourself, honey-lamb. We've discussed elsewhere the use of "Lord" and "lord," and convincing arguments were made against capitalization. What about this?
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Last edited by NancyBrooke on Thu May 19, 2005 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ghettoelleth
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 1804
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Nancy, how was xmas??
I know that if it is not a proper noun, you don't capitalize. ie. son, father, mother, sister.
However, and I'm not sure what the rules are on this (Thuriniel will know though) I believe that it has to do with respect when you capitalize titular nouns
ie, in the bible, when referencing god, God, He, His, etc are always capitalized. Also stuff like My Lord, His Majesty, etc. I know there are parameters for this and terms but maybe that'll help til Thur or Space or someone smarter than me on the subject sees this?
Jes
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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My instincts would be to capitalise it. If you're using 'father' as a term of address, I would write it 'Father', or 'Honey-lamb' or what have you. Saying that, I am always missing 'my lords' and things throughout my stories 
My mother, who's taught English for 30+ years, said the same thing. Capitalise it. (She's also now wondering what I want to know for...)
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ghettoelleth wrote: | However, and I'm not sure what the rules are on this (Thuriniel will know though) I believe that it has to do with respect when you capitalize titular nouns
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Actually, English and its capitalization rules totally escape me. We only capitalize proper nouns in Spanish, so I always have a hard time when capitalizing in English.
I agree with SW, however, that when you're using the term as an address, like Father, it should be capitalized.
Also, since we're in the topic and writing Tolkien ... have you noticed how much capitalization Tolkien uses? Wood-elves, Dwarves, Men ... so I think you would be safe capitalizing at your heart's desire  .
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Panneth
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Thuriniel wrote: | | Also, since we're in the topic and writing Tolkien ... have you noticed how much capitalization Tolkien uses? Wood-elves, Dwarves, Men ... so I think you would be safe capitalizing at your heart's desire . |
Tolkien capitalised Wood-elves etc because he's refering to actual races, like we write English, Spanish, American...
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe I get the impression that Tolkien capitalizes so much because he gives everyone forty different names  ! Open any page ... and count capitalizations ... it's crazy!
For example, from FotR (have it right here all handy ):
"And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountains! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning!"
Why is he capitalizing all these elements? I can see the point to capitalize the Sun ... but the others? All of them have the article "the" in front, which makes me think he's treating them as entities ... but really, I don't see why they should be capitalized.
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DarkElfChilde
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Tolkien sure does enjoy capitalizing certain objects a lot... 
- DEC
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NancyBrooke
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceWeavil wrote: | | My instincts would be to capitalise it. If you're using 'father' as a term of address, I would write it 'Father', or 'Honey-lamb' or what have you. Saying that, I am always missing 'my lords' and things throughout my stories |
My tendency is to over-capitalize, but I was pretty sure on what I always thought of as 'name substitutions': If ( see!) you would write 'Thranduil' but write 'Father' instead, capitalize Father as you would Thranduil. But I still want to capitalize "my Lord Denethor," too, so I had doubts. Thanks everybody for helping me sort it out. Now I can Beta with confidence.
| Thuriniel wrote: | For example, from FotR (have it right here all handy ):
"And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountains! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning!" |
So glad to know this!! Now I will feel that some silly affectations I have been using have precedence!
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Viv
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Capitalize when it's used as a proper noun:
--> Joe bought Mom a sweater for her birthday.
Don't capitalize when it's an improper noun:
--> Joe bought his mom a sweater for her birthday.
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NancyBrooke
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | Capitalize when it's used as a proper noun:
--> Joe bought Mom a sweater for her birthday.
Don't capitalize when it's an improper noun:
--> Joe bought his mom a sweater for her birthday.
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So, "throw your big leg over me,[ Love ] I might not feel this good again" is capitalized but, "Oh, my love, my darling, I hunger for your touch all the long lonely night" is not?
Sorry ... still 
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| NancyBrooke wrote: | | Viv wrote: | Capitalize when it's used as a proper noun:
--> Joe bought Mom a sweater for her birthday.
Don't capitalize when it's an improper noun:
--> Joe bought his mom a sweater for her birthday.
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So, "throw your big leg over me,[ Love ] I might not feel this good again" is capitalized but, "Oh, my love, my darling, I hunger for your touch all the long lonely night" is not?
Sorry ... still |
So is 'my love' treated the same as 'his love' (just in first person rather than third) in which case it would be lower case as it's not a proper noun, or is 'My Love' being used to substitute the person's name, and so is a proper noun? I would probably say the first one just on instincts. Leave it lower case. Because it's not really substituting the 'my love' for a usual proper noun thingy, it's more descriptive, isn't it?
I might be wrong and mum's gone to bed so I can't ask her.
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NancyBrooke
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceWeavil wrote: | | So is 'my love' treated the same as 'his love' (just in first person rather than third) in which case it would be lower case as it's not a proper noun, or is 'My Love' being used to substitute the person's name, and so is a proper noun? I would probably say the first one just on instincts. Leave it lower case. Because it's not really substituting the 'my love' for a usual proper noun thingy, it's more descriptive, isn't it? |
The way I'm seeing it is as a substitute for the name: "Come here, my love: I'm in the mood" e.g. so I'm thinking capitalize, but 'My Love,' or 'my Love'?
btw: I'm having a great time with these examples, if you haven't noticed.
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NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 9:50 am Post subject: |
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I went looking for this thread because I've come up against something like this now, and I'm still a bit confused and wondering if someone can help -
would you capitalize if you were using the word almost as a description, so rather than saying "blah," said John, you say "blah," said the minister. Would you then capitalize 'minister' at all?
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NancyBrooke
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Cr*p.
... and here I was feeling all confident and all.
I would say "Yes," it's a title, capitalize it.
Anybody else?
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NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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Alassante
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Based on what Viv says - no, it would not be capitalized. It is the minister not Minister Bob.
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