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Need a sindarin word for Phalanx

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inglor



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:43 am    Post subject: Need a sindarin word for Phalanx Reply with quote

I am writing a fic where the Elves will use a phalanx. For those of you who don't know, the phalanx was a formation of heavily armored infantry that used spears to thrust and heavy shields. The basic fomation consisted of 8 or more lines of men, the front 4 rows held their spears pointing forward and the remaining men held their spears with the points skyward so that the whole formation resembled a porcupine. Phalanx is a Greek term and I don't want to use a word that won't be invented for 14+ millenia.

Inglor the Great Wink

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Thuriniel



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inglor the Great asking Great Questions Laughing ...

Well, obviously there is no word for phalanx ... can you think of an expression that would convey the concept? I was thinking about "formation of eight" ...

Dírnaith-en-doloth

But then I don't think this would be very accurate ...

I gotta go to work, I'll give it more thought ... maybe SpaceWeavil will be able to help, she's good with this type of questions Wink .

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inglor



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thinking more along the lines of "Forest of Spears" or "Wall of Spikes" or "Spikey Turtle" or some kind of spikey slow moving animal. If we had the name for porcupine it would be great.

The Greek word means: "line of battle"

Maybe that will help

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sindohte



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a thought Inglor - even if you did use the word phalanx, it might not be a term with which every reader would be familiar. And even if you are able to find a Sindarin equivalent for phalanx, you are still probably going to have to describe what the battle formation looks like in order to get the reader to visualize the battle scene. So it might be less hassle to just describe the formation. But I will take a look at my nice, new Sindarin grammar book that I got for Christmas and see what I can find for you. Very Happy
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SpaceWeavil



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

inglor wrote:
I thinking more along the lines of "Forest of Spears" or "Wall of Spikes" or "Spikey Turtle" or some kind of spikey slow moving animal. If we had the name for porcupine it would be great.

The Greek word means: "line of battle"

Maybe that will help


Line of battle would give you 'tîdhagor' or 'têdhagor' or 'tê-i-dhagor'

Wall of spikes - 'Rammas-i-cheraig' (wall of spikes) or 'Rammas-garageb' (spikey wall) or 'Ramb-i-cheraig' or 'ramb-garageb' (different word for wall. Rammas is 'great wall' whereas ramb is just 'a wall')

Forest of spikes - 'eryn-i-cheraig' or 'eryn-garageb'

Couldn't find porcupine. Or even hedgehog I'm afraid. Cool

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Thuriniel



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forest of Spears:

taur-in-ich

Wall of Spikes:

ram-i-chebir

Apparently the dashes are optional, Tolkien was inconsistent with the use of dashes in the genitive cases. I guess you could also combine the words ... but that always scares me Laughing . I think that "taurinnich" would be a safe bet ...

Sind ... what book did you get?

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Last edited by Thuriniel on Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sindohte



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Gateway to Sindarin - it seems to be quite comprehensive but I have only skimmed over a small bit of it. One of my New Years Resolutions is to read books on other subjects besides Tolkien Laughing
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SpaceWeavil



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thuriniel wrote:
Forest of Spears:

taur-in-ich

Wall of Spikes:

ram-in-gebir

Apparently the dashes are optional, Tolkien was inconsistent with the use of dashes in the genitive cases. I guess you could also combine the words ... but that always scares me Laughing . I think that "taurinnich" would be a safe bet ...

Sind ... what book did you get?


Or you could combine it as ichdaur? 'spear forest'?

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inglor



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sind... I'm a guy... did you really think I was going to write about a combat formation and NOT describe it in intimate detail??? I will have trouble losing readers to too much detail. Razz

I really need it for shorthand reasons, the formation will play a prominant role in several battles. It is a specialized unit and I wanted a sure way to let the reader know I was talking about it and not just a bunch of infantry.

Edit: I wrote that ^ before Thuri and Space answered.

Thanks, ladies. Again this is a great place.




Inglor the Terrible

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpaceWeavil wrote:
Thuriniel wrote:
Forest of Spears:

taur-in-ich

Wall of Spikes:

ram-in-gebir

Apparently the dashes are optional, Tolkien was inconsistent with the use of dashes in the genitive cases. I guess you could also combine the words ... but that always scares me Laughing . I think that "taurinnich" would be a safe bet ...

Sind ... what book did you get?


Or you could combine it as ichdaur? 'spear forest'?


Would Gebirram be "Spike wall" ?

TIA

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Thuriniel



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpaceWeavil wrote:
Or you could combine it as ichdaur? 'spear forest'?


Sounds wonderful to me ... I don't see a problem with it Very Happy .

... I always take the most complicated approach to the matter Rolling Eyes ! Why say "spear forest" when you can say "Forest of Spears" Laughing ?!

Nice, I'm making fun of myself ...

You're welcome Inglor!

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SpaceWeavil



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

inglor wrote:
SpaceWeavil wrote:
Thuriniel wrote:
Forest of Spears:

taur-in-ich

Wall of Spikes:

ram-in-gebir

Apparently the dashes are optional, Tolkien was inconsistent with the use of dashes in the genitive cases. I guess you could also combine the words ... but that always scares me Laughing . I think that "taurinnich" would be a safe bet ...

Sind ... what book did you get?


Or you could combine it as ichdaur? 'spear forest'?


Would Gebirram be "Spike wall" ?

TIA


My dictionary gives it as 'Cebir, without the lenition so.. Ramgebir or Cebirram?

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Thuriniel



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My dictionary gives it as Cebir too ... Gebir is the lenited form.
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Thuriniel



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sindohte wrote:
A Gateway to Sindarin - it seems to be quite comprehensive but I have only skimmed over a small bit of it. One of my New Years Resolutions is to read books on other subjects besides Tolkien Laughing


Thanks Sind! I keep hearing rumours about David Salo putting together a book of Sindarin grammar and vocabulary ... the day that happens I'm going to be the first in line to buy it Laughing !

I just hope the rumours are true ...

Now that I think about it ... has it happened already Shocked ?!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully it'll come out in the UK as well. I only have one proper book on elvish, which is by J Allen I think, and I'm not altogether impressed by it. Not that it's inaccurate or anything like that, but it really just is a collection of essays on different languages, and not much use for us fan fic writers who want to use the stuff Laughing
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