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sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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 Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:34 am Post subject: Fanfic Conventions |
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Just a few random thoughts floating through my head. We all have fanfic peeves that make us groan when they pop up in a story. So here's my question - What prompts authors to use them in the first place? And to get you started, here are some of the ones I have noticed -
1. Why is Elladan portrayed as the repressed, responsible twin; while Elrohir is the wild and crazy party animal?
2. Why is Thranduil often viewed to be an abusive/evil/crazy father, when there is no evidence of such behavior from Tolkien's work? In The Hobbit,I viewed Thranduil's imprisoning the dwarves as a prudent and sensible thing to do. Why should a bunch of strangers, be wandering willy nilly through his lands? And although kept in a dungeon, the dwarves were well treated.
3. What is the source of the supposed bad blood between Elrond and Thranduil? Unless there is Version 1.5 of Lord of the Rings out there that I have not read, I am clueless as to why these two Elves would dislike each other.
4. Why is Boromir portrayed as a sexual dynamo? (Not that I am complaining because #1 son of the Steward of Gondor can park his boots next to my bed anytime  )
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Ellbee
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 1. Why is Elladan portrayed as the repressed, responsible twin; while Elrohir is the wild and crazy party animal? |
Actually, this is the case in the story I've read, but it's nothing like universal. What I find interesting is that he's usually called the elder of the two, I suppose so the writers can say "the older twin" and "the younger twin" (sometime far too much) rather than their names. But really, since Tolkien told us so little about them, they are a blank page.
| Quote: | | 2. Why is Thranduil often viewed to be an abusive/evil/crazy father, when there is no evidence of such behavior from Tolkien's work? In The Hobbit,I viewed Thranduil's imprisoning the dwarves as a prudent and sensible thing to do. Why should a bunch of strangers, be wandering willy nilly through his lands? And although kept in a dungeon, the dwarves were well treated. |
I think this is another case of using a little-developed character as you please. Add teenage I-hate-my-parents angst to the fact that so many people seem to like the idea of pretty, pretty little Legolas having the s%^t kicked out of him, and you've got RatBastard!Thranduil. 
| Quote: | | 3. What is the source of the supposed bad blood between Elrond and Thranduil? Unless there is Version 1.5 of Lord of the Rings out there that I have not read, I am clueless as to why these two Elves would dislike each other. |
Now this does have a bit of basis in canon, I believe. From what I can glean from essays and the Encyclopedia of Arda and suchlike, there was some bad blood between Oropher, Thranduil's father, and Gil-Galad, at the time of the Last Alliance. So much so that Oropher led his Mirkwood warriors on an ill-advised charge and died during the battle, losing a huge number of his soldiers. So I can see where you could get the antagonism (in fact, I plan to use it myself) between Gil-Galad's herald and Oropher's son.
| Quote: | | 4. Why is Boromir portrayed as a sexual dynamo? (Not that I am complaining because #1 son of the Steward of Gondor can park his boots next to my bed anytime ) |
Erm...Sean Bean?
-Ell
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Roisin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 449
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Ah, so the Elrond/Thranduil thing DOES have some basis. That's good to know.
Roisin |
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Hathor
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 346
Location: Lancashire, England
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Fanfic Conventions |
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1. Why is Elladan portrayed as the repressed, responsible twin; while Elrohir is the wild and crazy party animal?
Well, the name Elladan means Elf-Man/Star-Man But the "adan" part is actually more like "High Man" (Dunadan, for example). Elrohir means Elf-Knight/Star-Knight. I think the idea is that Elrohir is the warrior, the one thats a lot lighter, while Elladan is the one that sits still and is more studious- the high-man is a scholar.
That's the theory, anyway.
2. Why is Thranduil often viewed to be an abusive/evil/crazy father, when there is no evidence of such behavior from Tolkien's work? In The Hobbit,I viewed Thranduil's imprisoning the dwarves as a prudent and sensible thing to do. Why should a bunch of strangers, be wandering willy nilly through his lands? And although kept in a dungeon, the dwarves were well treated.
Legolas need a tragic past? I'm not sure. Somewhere along the line a story was written with Thranduil as an alcoholic, gold-digging rat bastard, and the idea stuck, I suppose. Fanon at work.
It is all a bit weird, now you come to mention it...
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Isabeau
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 4. Why is Boromir portrayed as a sexual dynamo? (Not that I am complaining because #1 son of the Steward of Gondor can park his boots next to my bed anytime ) |
Erm...Sean Bean?
-Ell[/quote]
That's my theory as well. He is the one character whom I thought that FOTR improved upon, and part of that was that the script treated him decently, and most of it was that Sean Bean did such an incredible job. The man is hot, and he played Boromir as a passsionate individual as compared to Viggo's more reserved, cerebral Aragorn. Sorry if this strays into movie thread territory.
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Scribe
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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Location: Betelgeuse
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Isabeau wrote: | | Quote: | | 4. Why is Boromir portrayed as a sexual dynamo? (Not that I am complaining because #1 son of the Steward of Gondor can park his boots next to my bed anytime ) |
Erm...Sean Bean? |
I agree completely!
That's my theory as well. He is the one character whom I thought that FOTR improved upon, and part of that was that the script treated him decently, and most of it was that Sean Bean did such an incredible job. The man is hot, and he played Boromir as a passsionate individual as compared to Viggo's more reserved, cerebral Aragorn. Sorry if this strays into movie thread territory.
Isabeau |
[/quote]
That's alright, I tend to agree with you on that point. It has a lot to do with Sean. However, I must say that I find it confusing that Thranduil is portrayed so badly after all, he has a raised a noble and seemingly well adjusted son, hardly the picture of an abused victim. |
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Roisin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 449
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | However, I must say that I find it confusing that Thranduil is portrayed so badly after all, he has a raised a noble and seemingly well adjusted son, hardly the picture of an abused victim. |
Well, the portrayal of Legolas in some fics makes me wonder what people have going through their heads. "Passive Victim" Legolas bears little or no resemblance to the ass-kicking Elf I've come to love.  LOL
Roisin |
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Lindorien
Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:38 pm Post subject: wierd representations |
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| Why is Faramir always crying? |
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Ariel
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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And why is Frodo always portrayed as a weeping teen? Ack... Maybe that is also a movie based perception, but it is one that I get oh so weary of!
Ariel |
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Isabeau
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| Ariel wrote: | And why is Frodo always portrayed as a weeping teen? Ack... Maybe that is also a movie based perception, but it is one that I get oh so weary of!
Ariel |
It has to be. I enjoyed FOTR for the most part, but Frodo got shafted, and locked into perpetual victimhood right from the start. Weathertop annoyed me horribly--he was trying to wriggle away instead of striking at the Nazgul. Would it have hurt PJ to show him with his usual spunk? Not at all! And if I recollect correctly, he doesn't get his licks in on the Cave Troll until the extended edition of the DVD--more wriggling until he's spitted. Small wonder no one thinks he can do anything. |
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sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Isabeau wrote: | | And if I recollect correctly, he doesn't get his licks in on the Cave Troll until the extended edition of the DVD--more wriggling until he's spitted. Small wonder no one thinks he can do anything. |
That's a good point. It was as if everyone went into "We must protect delicate Frodo-mode." I never thought of that before b/c even the other hobbits were getting their licks in when it came to kicking some Orc butt.
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Ariel
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Isabeau wrote: | | Weathertop annoyed me horribly--he was trying to wriggle away instead of striking at the Nazgul. Would it have hurt PJ to show him with his usual spunk? Not at all! |
Preaching to the choir here... Now, I'll admit, it's a bit difficult to have a sword in one hand while trying to slip the ring on your forefinger - but I think the effect could have been done maybe by having Frodo slip the ring on first, maybe? Oh, I don't know - It annoyed me too and I could see no reason for the whimpifying of Frodo. I thought it was done so that his growth and maturity could be seen across the films, but I haven't seen any signs of it so far and we are 2/3s of the way through. He's running out of time to grow resolve before he becomes a sack of potatoes. *sigh*
| Isabeau wrote: | | And if I recollect correctly, he doesn't get his licks in on the Cave Troll until the extended edition of the DVD--more wriggling until he's spitted. Small wonder no one thinks he can do anything. |
Yeah, like those little books have any bearing on the character's development.  Actually, he gets exactly two licks on the cave troll in both the TR and the EE - the scenes that were changed involved Boz, Sam and Aragorn, but still, his 'licks' were nothing like him leaping forth and yelling 'The Shire!' before stabbing the cave troll's foot. Sorry, PJ... ya missed some rather critical character development there...
Yeah, I could go on and bore you all to tears... suffice to say I agree.
Ariel |
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Ellbee
Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I think that what the movie is focusing on is the fact that Frodo is not a warrior, he's just a normal guy caught up in something much bigger than he's ever dreamed of. The rest of the Fellowship aren't protecting him because he's a sissy-boy, they're protecting him because, as the Ringbearer, he's the most important member of the Fellowship. Protecting him is the reason they came along in the first place. I've always seen him as the everyman, surrounded by colorful characters, and the story is not so much about him as it is about what he sees on his journey.
As for the development of his character, he's going to be changed by the end of the story, of course, but what we see during the journey is how he loses himself to the will of the Ring, and by the time he's slogging through Mordor, he's nothing but a shell of himself. If there's any spunk to be seen, it will be because PJ added it in.
-Ell
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Ariel
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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That's sort of what I am afraid of, Ellbee.
And I know that about Frodo, but book Frodo had something that movie Frodo never got - a moment when he was able to call up his courage. In the Barrow, Tolkien is clear that that 'seed of courage' arose in Frodo and PJ has never given movie!Fro a moment like that. He still has Shelob's Lair - but that's going to have to be an awfully impressive scene to make up for TTT. I guess I hope that my 'everyman' would have a spunk more like book!Frodo and less like Movie!Frolijah.
Ariel |
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Ellbee
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with you about the Barrow Downs scene, that's one of my favorite pieces from the books. Unfortunately, it's married to my very least favorite part, Tom Bombadill.  And even there, Frodo had to have someone else come rescue him.
But I see all sorts of evidence of spunk in the movies. Just taking the ring at all is spunky, and we see Gandalf's acknowledgement of that. One of my favorite parts of TTT is the part where Sam falls in front of the Black Gate, and Frodo goes after him without a second thought (and does that cool thing with the elf cloak). Now that's spunky. 
As to why fanfic writers like to make him Wimpy!Frodo, I can only imagine it's because of those great big, soulful blue eyes. Why do they want to turn a Sexy Battle Elf like Legolas into a weepy girly-elf? The curse of being pretty, I suppose.
-Ell
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