[VanatheEverYoung]

I know that Tolkien based Quenya on Finnish and Sindarin on Welsh, but how similar are the Elvish languages to their inspirations? Could Quenya be mistaken for a dialect of Finnish and Sindarin for a Welsh dialect?

Let me give an example. Because I know Spanish, I can understand Italian in the most basic sense, though I can't speak it. But, someone who has never in their life heard either language might think they were the same, only different dialects. (Let's ignore the Latin connection for right now). So, could someone who speaks Finnish understand Quenya? And could that Finnish-speaker possibly say to the Quenya-speaker "Hmm ... we must speak different dialects, but I understand you well enough, and that's the point."

Guess why I'm asking. Yup, my fic. I'd appreciate any help.

[Ilmatar]

Well, I am Finnish so I guess I am qualified to answer your question:

No. They sound a bit same and it it really easy for me to pronounce the Quenyan words and phrases since the vowels are the same (exept that we have ä and ö). Other that that it is completely different: no common words. Plus we have double vowels. The consonants that appear in Quenya are very different from the ones in Finnish (for example we never have c of q in out words) too.

Well see for yourself, a Finnish sentence:

Meren suulta, hiekalta, lentäen tuuli etelään;
se lokkien huutoa tuo ja sen kuulen portilla itkevän.
(From Legolas´ song when Boromir dies)

Not very elvish...

Good question though...

[VanatheEverYoung]

Thanks for the answer. Even if it wasn't exactly what I was hoping for It's nothing that can't be changed with a few taps of the delete key. In any case, both Quenya and Finnish have a few too many vowels for my taste.

[SpaceWeavil]

I would imagine Welsh and Sindarin are the same way. My knowledge of Welsh is extremely limited, but occasionally I find a Sindarin word that's obviously based on Welsh and that strikes me as familiar. But I don't know if a Welsh speaker would understand Sindarin. Like, I did a bit of Gaelic, which is kind of related to Welsh, but I can't automatically follow Welsh. Same thing though, sometimes I will notice something that is similar.

Don't know if that is of the remotest bit of help

[SecretKeeper]

I'm not how accurate wikipedia is but here are a couple links about the subject(s) that I searched, the info is really interesting and I might use some of those links myself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh Hopefully the link works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brythonic "...one of two major divisions of Insular Celtic languages..." as quoted from wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goidelic "one of two major divisions of modern-day Celtic languages" also quoted from wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindarin Hopefully this link works too.

[VanatheEverYoung]

Of course it's helpful ... in messing up my chapter . But, that's not your fault. It's mine for not checking before I wrote it. I can fix it, though. It's not a huge problem. I'm just glad I asked before I posted it. That would have been terribly embarassing.

[SecretKeeper]

Aww poor Vana. It will be okay. Just calm down, relax and breathe. In, out. In, out. Okay...feel a bit better? Hmm...fear not. I hope this may help some more!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbrian
Cumbrian seems to be an extinct language but it seems that some of the examples they have seem eerily close to Sindarin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivernic
Ivernic is also extinct but it seems that the tribe called Iverni, was also called the Errain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_Kingdom
Hopefully this link also helps, it has a list of the languages in the UK.

http://www.theglasgowstory.com/story.php?id=TGSAG This is from "The Glasgow Story" and it talks about the names of towns and such with Cumbric names or something like that.

http://www.ceantar.org/Dicts/MF2/ This has some Gaelic in it and I looked through some of the words and it seems that words like aghann (also adhann) seem similar in writing to say adan however the meanings don't seem to mean the same.

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/gaelic.htm More Scottish Gaelic and http://www.omniglot.com/writing/tengwar_gaelic.htm where SG is shown in tengwar. I think that's cool!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Gaelic Stuff on Irish Gaelic and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Gaelic more stuff on Scottish Gaelic.

[SpaceWeavil]

[VanatheEverYoung]

Geesh, girls! I can barely handle Spanish. (I'm going to be the most worthless European historian EVER). I appreciate all the help, but I don't think I'll be able to use any of this in my current story. I'm going to bookmark those for a later fic. I had a vague plot bunny lurking in the shadows, but the words "extinct languages" set it to work. So, thanks for that!

The whole reason I asked the question was to see if I could possibly have modern humans (who don't know Elvish) and Elves (who don't know any modern languages) communicate. The answer is apprently "no." So, I have a few changes to make. Luckily, I have a "translator" in the form of an OFC.

[SecretKeeper]