[NancyBrooke]

What do we know about weights and measures in Tolkien? What terms does he use and how do they correspond to everyday ones?

Help?

[miriel361]

Leagues comes to mind. Tolkien spoke of leagues. Probably you would stick to the old terms like ounce, pound, stone.

All early measures were based on body parts (ahem - down you naughty muse). So that the smallest measurement was the one between the knuckles of a finger (inch) followed by the length between the tip of the fingers and elbow (forgotten what that one was called), the length of an arm (yard or armslength) and then the length of a man. The distance a man could travel in a day or half day ..... I'm telling you all this because you could theoretically make up your own.

As to measurements, you would have to create a standard and work from there. Standards were not such a big thing until Louis XIV of France and his mercantilism.

Hope this helps.

[NancyBrooke]

[miriel361]

The other measurement, the name of which I cannot remember is the distance between the extended thumb and forefinger, which would correstpond to 10cm. Oh yes - a finger span.... jumps up and down in excitement at having remembered.

A league is the equivalent to three miles.

[miriel361]

Actually a cubit is the length of the forearm. (just checked in my clever dictionary - latin based )

[HollyTook]

Hm...farthing? That's six feet in sailor terms, hehe, not so Tolkienesque, though. Furlong, that's a stride or so in horse racing...

I'm not being very helpful...

[Andreth]

I seem to remember some discussion of Numenorean measurements either in Unfinished Tales or the appendices of RotK. The only one I can recall is ranga and that was in reference to Elendil's height. I don't have my books with me, but I'll take a look see later this afternoon and try to find it.

[BittenBuggy]

Andreth, I remembered something like that as well, but I couldn't remember if it was canon or fanfiction

[Panneth]

[Robbie]

[NancyBrooke]

Eight furlongs to the mile, If I remember correctly ... now what's that in leagues?

[NancyBrooke]

[HollyTook]

hehe, ok, I knew I wasn't being a help, but I'm sorry for getting both of my suggestions completely wrong, lol. I blame it on my Tookish side.

[Andreth]

Okay - I found it. It was in Unfinished Tales, in the Appendix for the Disaster of the Gladden Fields. Here's the text: ** marks my comments.

"Measures of distance are converted as nearly as possible into modern terms. 'League' is used because it was the longest measurement of distance: in Numenorean reckoning (which was decimal) five thousand rangar (full paces) made a lar (*with an accent over the a which I don't know how to do here*), which was very nearly three of our miles. Lar meant 'pause', because except in forced marches a brief halt was usually made after this distance had been covered. (*It says see note 9, which I'll type at the bottom of this section*)

The Numenorean ranga was slightly longer than our yard, approximately thirty-eight inches owing to their greater stature. Therefore five thousand rangar would be almost exactly the equivalent of 5280 yards, our 'league': 5277 yards, two feet and four inches, supposing the lengths given in histories of various things and distances that can be compared with those of our time. Account has to be taken both of the great stature of Numenoreans (since hands, feet, fingers and paces are likely to be the origin of names of units of length), and also of the variations from these averages or norms in the process of fixing and organising a measurement system both for daily use and for exact calculations. Thus two rangar was often called 'man-high', which at thirty-eight inches gives an average height of six feet four inches: but this was at a later date, when the stature of the Dunedain appears to have decreased, and also was not intended to be an accurate statement of the observed average of male stature among them, but was an approximate length expressed in the well-known unit ranga. (The range is often said to have been the length of the stride, from rear heel to front toe, of a full-grown man marching swiftly but at ease; a full stride 'might be well nigh a ranga and a half'.)

It is however said of the great people of the past that they were more than man-high. Elendil was aid to be 'more than man-high by nearly half a ranga'; but he was accounted the tallest of all the Numenoreans who escaped the Downfall [and indeed generally was known as Elendil the Tall]. The Eldar of the Eldar Days were also very tall. Galadriel, 'the tallest of all the women of the Eldar of whom tales tell', was said to be man-high, but it is noted 'according to the measure of the Dunedain and the men of old', indicating a height of about six feet four inches.

The Rohirrim were generally shorter, for in their far-off ancestry they had been mingled with men of broader and heavier build. Eomer was said to have been tall, of like height with Aragorn; but he with other descendants of King Thengel were taller than the norm of Rohan, deriving this characteristic (together in some cases with darker hair) from Morwen, Thengel's wife, a lady of Gondor of high Numenorean descent. "


Now here's the part of note 9 that corresponds:

"The journey was probably at least three hundred and eight leagues as marched; but the soldiers of the Dunedain, tall men of great strength and endurance, were accustomed to move fully armed at eight leagues a day 'with ease': when they went in eight spells of a league, with short breaks at the end of each league (lar, Sindarin daur, originally meaning stop or pause), and one hour near midday. This made a 'march' of about ten and a half hours, in which they were walking eight hours.

This pace they could maintain for long periods with adequate provision. In haste they could move much faster, at twelve leagues a day (or in great need more), but for shorter periods. At the date of the disaster, in the latitude of Imladris (which they were approaching), there were at least eleven hours of daylight in open country; but at midwinter less than eight. Long journeys, however, were not undertaken in the North between the beginning of Hithui (Hisime, November) and the end of Ninui (Nenime, February) in time of peace."

And that's all, folks. Hope that gives you some of what you were looking for. It's all I can think of having seen, but I'll see if I come across anything else and let you know.

[NancyBrooke]

Great Gooogli Mooogli! Good stuff ... thanks for looking it up!

N