[SpaceWeavil]

Discussion on the chapter - 'The Clouds Burst' will officially begin on Monday 21/2/05.


Anyone wandering by this thread should feel free to raise questions or make comments.

Please try to keep the comments on this thread strictly related to discussion of the Hobbit.

[Thuriniel]

The chapter “The Clouds Burst” starts with the sending of a messenger to Thorin. Thorin, believing that the embassy is sent because they’ve heard of the soon arrival of Dain, is surprised when Bard and the Elvenking announce that they come to bargain. The Arkenstone of Thrain is revealed and Thorin is beside himself when he discovers that his thief, Bilbo, has been the one to steal the coveted trinket. Thorin curses the day that he allowed Gandalf to choose his thief, and at that moment, the old man that had been carrying the casket that held the stone reveals himself as the wizard.

Thorin agrees to part with one fourteenth share of the gold and silver in exchange for the Arkenstone. The embassy leaves, making sure Thorin knows that they will not part with the Arkenstone until he has fulfilled his side of the bargain. Bilbo is thrown from the mountain with “nothing to show for his trouble” and the rest of the dwarves watch in shame and sadness. The embassy arrives to camp, and Thorin sends messengers to Dain telling him to hurry his pace, since he plans to regain the Arkenstone by force without paying his part of the bargain.

The next day arrives with news of a host of dwarves approaching from the east and traveling quickly to Dale. They come dressed in mail and ready for combat and they’re described as being stronger than most dwarves. Their choice of weapons in battle are mattocks and short swords. There’s also a mention of their beards: “forked and plaited and thrust into their belts.”

Elves and men are called to arms. Upon the arrival of the dwarves, Dain sends messengers who ask in a polite manner why their path is being hindered. Bard refuses to allow the dwarves’ safe passing, determined to wait until he has the promised share of gold and silver in exchange for the Arkenstone. Bard figures that the new dwarves would bring supplies and renewed strength and their siege would be in vain. The messengers leave after some angry words are exchanged, and Bard sends his own messengers to the Gate where they’re greeted with arrows but no gold or silver. Dain’s dwarves begin to advance upon the camp, and men and elves prepare themselves for a possible combat.

While Bard and the Elvenking hesitate, the dwarves attack. Just when it appears that a combat will happen, the skies darken and Gandalf halts the fight. His staff flashes “like lightning” and he informs everyone that a host of Goblins and Wargs is about to fall upon them. The darkness becomes greater and the dwarves, men and elves are thrown into what would be later on known as “The Battle of the Five Armies.”

Apparently after the fall of the Great Goblin an army had been amassed, fueled further by their hatred of the dwarves. They all gathered traveling by night at their capital, Gundabad of the North. When they learned of the death of Smaug they hastened toward the Lonely Mountain.

There is a council between the Elvenking, Bard and Dain, and they reach the conclusion that the Goblins are the foes of them all, so they might as well fight together. They plan to lure them into the valley, place troops on the spurs that go south and east, and then attack them from behind and above.

As expected, the Goblins pour in rage into the valley, carrying red and black banners. The elves are the first ones to attack, first with arrows, then with spears, and just as the goblins are recovering from the onslaught of the elves, Dain’s dwarves arrive with cries of “Moria!”. In the meantime, Bilbo, who is incredibly frightened and considers this the most dreadful of all of his adventures, puts his magic ring on and vanishes from sight.

Dain’s dwarves attack and the Goblins panic. The elves renew their attack as well and many goblins try to escape the trap. They climb up the mountain and slopes and successfully attack the outposts that had been there. Victory vanishes from hope. The new day dawns and a new “black tide” of goblins arrives in the valley along with Wargs and the bodyguard of Bolg: “goblins of huge size with scimitars of steel.” There are great vampire-like bats flying over the battlefield and stormy clouds in the sky that don’t allow for the daylight to shine.

Thorin’s dwarves attack from the Mountain and elves, men and dwarves keep on killing goblins until Dale is “dark and hideous with their corpses.” There are also many dwarves, men and elves killed and the numbers dwindle dangerously. The goblins renew their attack until the good guys are forced into a great ring.

Bilbo watches from the safety of his spot among the Elves on Ravenhill along with Gandalf who is sitting on the ground thinking, and Bilbo wishes he were out of that place and ponders on the gloriousness of defeat.

The clouds are pierced and Bilbo sees “dark shapes small yet majestic against the distant glow.” He cries: “The eagles! The eagles!” Many eyes look up to see what’s coming and Bilbo keeps rejoicing on the arrival of the eagles when a stone comes from above and smites him on the helm. He falls unconscious to the ground.

End of the chapter.

I know I haven’t made it any justice … so please, if you have not read it, do so! The Battle of the Five Armies descriptions are simply amazing and overwhelming … elves charging against the goblins full of wrath … the dwarves and their strength in battle … the power of the enemy … it’s glorious, and the reason why I picked this chapter to summarize! It’s my favorite of the whole book.

Questions for discussion? … well, the only one I have is the one that always pops in my mind when The Battle of the Five Armies is mentioned … was Legolas there or not? (I know ... I'm showing here my true colors ! PEF!)

[ellisk]

I'll make another reply to this later, but since I also am a true PEF, I could not resist a brief one now.

I know there is absolutely no canon evidence for it but: If Tolkien had conceived of Legolas when he wrote The Hobbit, I am sure he would have had some role. And in my mind (and story) Legolas is there. Read Daw the Minstrel's A Tangled Web for a really good Legolas/Battle of the Five Armies gap filler.

[Thuriniel]

I suspect that Tolkien hadn't come up with Legolas when he was writing The Hobbit ... I mean, Thranduil doesn't even have a name, he's just called "the Elvenking," odds are Legolas was still in limbo.

I believe that Legolas would've been in the Battle of the Five Armies ... and right now I'm going to go take a look at daw's fic. I love her Legolas' gap fillers stories, they're very involved and realistic ... I do feel like I'm truly reading Legolas' adventures !

[ellisk]

I have to agree that this is one of my favorite chapters. I love the action in it, right from the very beginning. As I said before, it contains one of my favorite lines in the whole book: If you don't like my Burglar, please don't damage him. That just strikes me as very comical for whatever reason!

Bilbo is one heck of a brave little hobbit to stand up and admit he gave the stone to Bard. There is absolutely no denying that.

And, since I love the Mirkwood elves, I cannot resist to comment that they make a good showing here--from the Elvenking's Long will I tarry, ere I begin this war for gold. The dwarves cannot press us, unless we will, or do anything that we cannot mark. Let us hope still for something that will bring reconciliation. Our advantage in numbers will be enough, if in the end it must come to unhappy blows." to their valor in the battle.

And I have always thought it was interesting that Bilbo took up his stand with the Elvenking's host. I suppose I would have too after the dwarves threw me out and called me a descendant of rats (great insult, Tolkien!). He seemed to love elves in general, visiting them in the shire and going to Imladris in his old age. But he shows his respect for the Elvenking in this chapter and the next when he 'repays' his 'hospitality.' I think that is cool.

But my favorite part of this chapter has always been the Eagles. I love the Eagles everytime they appear.

One thing that I've always wondered about this chapter is: what exactly was Gandalf doing, sitting there at the end. Was he preparing some spell? Calling the Eagle somehow? I always wondered.