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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:28 pm Post subject: Quotes in stories |
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Argh, I shall try for the second time to post this. Computer is not co operating today.
Anyway, I wanted to ask a question that relates to a fic I'm working on at the moment. It's not one I've posted anywhere, nor do I intend to post it for a while yet (until I finish some of the WIPs I have posted). Basically my question is, how much can you quote from the books or movies in a story before it gets annoying?
The story's an AU 'what if', based on a conversation between Galadriel and Frodo in FotR and on a letter the Professor wrote, about what would happen if Galadriel had got hold of the One Ring. The story's basically a rewrite of the War of the Ring, taking it from the starting point that, when Frodo offers to give Galadriel the ring, she actually does think about taking it. (so the whole story is basically her thinking what would happen). It all takes place in that short moment when Frodo offers the ring, so what I was planning on doing was starting and ending the story with a short excerpt from FotR.
I'm just worried that it might be too long a quote, although I can't cut it down any more than I already have without losing the point of the scene. But if it's going to be irritating for a reader, it's better going, I should think, and maybe an author's note would be better?
Of course, I've given credit in an author's note, and what I've done is put the quotes in italics, and have said this is what I'm doing at the start, so it's obvious I'm not passing anything off as my own. But it still worries me a bit.
Also, if anyone could think of another, better way of introducing the story, maybe without using the quotes, that would be much appreciated.
I just thought I'd play with the notes and stuff for this story again to see if it kicks my other muses into gear, to get me back working on my WIPs. _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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ellisk

Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Posts: 579 Location: Icon by Alassante! Wow!
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Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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In the second part of my story, I introduced every chapter with a quote from UT or Silm because it helped explain something that went on in the chap. I don't think it's annoying if it is pertinent. And if you worked it to open and close the story, I think that sounds interesting. I don't think there's anything wrong with this way of intro'ing your fic. That's my two cents. _________________ It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Ultima ratio regum (The Last Argument of Kings)--engraved on all French cannons by order of Louis XIV |
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inglor

Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 853 Location: Not here, not there, not anywhere
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Interesting: having a quote start a chap or story
Still interesting: Having a quote start and end a story.
Annoying: More than three quotes per chap. but in a single chap fic, it depends on the length, longer=more quotes.
Inglor _________________ Hi, My name is Inglor and I am a Tolkien Geek (sub-species: Silgeek)
Owner of the phrase: "merciless attention" so authorized by Viv |
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NancyBrooke Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 160 Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:31 am Post subject: |
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So, you're talking about quoting a significant scene, right, not just a few lines?
I find it annoying, myself, when an author just includes parts of the films/books in their fic; it seems dishonest and lazy.
You, however, we know are not lazy:
| Quote: | | The story's basically a rewrite of the War of the Ring |
Best, I think would be to choose the most pertinent bits and put them before the story's start, with appropriate credits, of course. But if you feel you really need more, putting it as a prologue of sorts would work to situate your reader and acknowledge the Professor. If you really want it in the story, then a note at the start giving credit should suffice.
Good Luck! Sounds like quite an interesting and extensive undertaking. _________________ NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Basically this was how I've opened the thing so far, with this little block out of FotR:
| Quote: | <i> “For if you fail, then we are laid bare to the Enemy. Yet if you succeed, then our power is diminished, and Lothlórien will fade, and the tides of Time will sweep it away. We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten.”
Frodo bent his head. “And what do you wish?” he said at last.
“That what should be shall be,” she answered. “The love of the Elves for their land and their works is deeper than the deeps of the Sea, and their regret is undying and cannot ever wholly be assuaged. Yet they will cast all away rather than submit to Sauron: for they know him now. For the fate of Lothlórien you are not answerable, but only for the doing of your own task. Yet I could wish, were it of any avail, that the One Ring had never been wrought, or had remained for ever lost.”
“You are wise and fearless and fair, Lady Galadriel,” said Frodo. “I will give you the One Ring, if you ask for it. It is too great a matter for me.”
Galadriel laughed with a sudden clear laugh. “Wise the Lady Galadriel may be,” she said, “yet here she has met her match in courtesy…I do not deny that my heart has greatly desired to ask what you offer. For many long years I had pondered what I might do, should the Great Ring ever come into my hands and behold! it was brought within my grasp.”</i>
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I've got the note in my A/N that text in italics at the start and end is from the book, giving chapter numbers etc. as well. Looking at it I don't know whether I can cut it down and start it instead from Frodo's line 'You are wise...etc'. That's it though until the end of the fic. No more quotes until it all is finished and normal services resume, because from the end of this quote, nothing is the same as the books.
It's amazing how things change though just by tweaking one little scene. _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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SilverMoonLady

Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 1201 Location: Breaking in a Brandybuck... *wicked grin*
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:44 am Post subject: |
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*waits with bated breath* Now, that is a project, my dear! I personally think that having the scene as a settup would work fine, especially with the AN.
And, btw, this is just the kind of AU I think would knock the socks off any fan of the books!
A little tweak..  _________________ Suffering an again off again connection with life...
The joy of motherhood: what a woman experiences when all the kids are in bed.
*local PHF union rep* *tart of the week*
Shelob the Cookie Baker |
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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| SilverMoonLady wrote: | *waits with bated breath* Now, that is a project, my dear! I personally think that having the scene as a settup would work fine, especially with the AN.
And, btw, this is just the kind of AU I think would knock the socks off any fan of the books!
A little tweak..  |
Thanks This is the one I was on about in the other thread, about not knowing what I'm doing with the Hobbits yet. That's the only thing I need to sort out really. _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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VanatheEverYoung
Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 0 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:04 am Post subject: |
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I don't see a problem with that bit. Yes, it's a long quote, but without it, the scene isn't set up quite the same. BTW, it's not nice to tease! How long do we have to wait for this story? _________________
Vána, the Ever-Young
"All flowers spring as she passes and open if she glances upon them; and all birds sing at her coming." |
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SilverMoonLady

Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 1201 Location: Breaking in a Brandybuck... *wicked grin*
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:12 am Post subject: |
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I was hoping...  _________________ Suffering an again off again connection with life...
The joy of motherhood: what a woman experiences when all the kids are in bed.
*local PHF union rep* *tart of the week*
Shelob the Cookie Baker |
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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| VanatheEverYoung wrote: | | I don't see a problem with that bit. Yes, it's a long quote, but without it, the scene isn't set up quite the same. BTW, it's not nice to tease! How long do we have to wait for this story? |
I've no idea to be honest. I've had it in the background for a while, plotting out all the weird twists you get when you alter stuff. I went back to it recently because I've just lost my enthusiasm for my other stories and to a lesser extent for writing in general. Don't know if it's just tiredness as I've had a lot of work on at uni, plus a lot of beta work, but I thought if I went off and played with something else, it might get my brain back into LOTR fan fic mode. _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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SilverMoonLady

Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 1201 Location: Breaking in a Brandybuck... *wicked grin*
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:16 am Post subject: |
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*passes the chocolate & liqueurs, and feeds the bunny* _________________ Suffering an again off again connection with life...
The joy of motherhood: what a woman experiences when all the kids are in bed.
*local PHF union rep* *tart of the week*
Shelob the Cookie Baker |
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NancyBrooke Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 160 Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:05 am Post subject: |
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I think when you started this thread you wanted a strong opinion, and with it some advice you could take or discard as you thought best; to that end:
I think what you have planned there is fine, but if you just started with
| Quote: | | For many long years I had pondered what I might do, should the Great Ring ever come into my hands and behold! it was brought within my grasp. |
I think you would have a strong and provocative beginning. _________________ NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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Viv Challenge Admin

Joined: 24 Apr 2003 Posts: 71 Location: Texas
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:28 am Post subject: |
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I struggled with a similar situation in my epic Legomance: I needed to retell the death of Aragorn (from LoTR Appendix), pretty much exactly as Tolkien did. So I took a lot of his dialogue, but I re-blocked it, inserting new mannerisms and movement, a different point-of-view character. Where I could, I changed the wording, making it more compatible with the way I was writing the characters.
With these subtle changes, no one has ever even mentioned that a lot of the dialogue in that scene was Tolkien's. But that could be because many lotrfic readers don't read the appendixes anyway. |
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Elentari

Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 254 Location: Lost in elven dreams...
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:50 am Post subject: |
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SW, with the piece you showed, you could either use the whole text you separated or just the final lines. (I personally vote for the lengthier, I think it would give the reader a more complete grasp of the ambient, for lack of better word.)
Begginning and ending with a quote would be a nice gap-filler. We did not see what passes through galadriel's mind, and it would be very scary indeed. I join the club- I will be waiting this one with great anticipation!
However, as with FF in general, everything lies heavily in the writter's style. there is a one fic that goes with re-writing LoTR almost chapter-by-chapter, it's an unashamed Mary-Sue, a tenth-walker, and legomance to top it, and still is a delightful piece to read. You'll even find it in- gasp- FF.net. The Truth about Elves, by Blue Kat.
I have no doubt you'd pull it off. (That's flattery, btw) But I guess you are thinking on the lines of begginning-ending. Well, I am waiting eagerly.
*Sits on chair tapping feet n the ground*[/url] |
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Lossefalme01

Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 31 Location: Missouri, USA
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Ooo, that fic sounds really interesting!
| Quote: | | I struggled with a similar situation in my epic Legomance: I needed to retell the death of Aragorn (from LoTR Appendix), pretty much exactly as Tolkien did. So I took a lot of his dialogue, but I re-blocked it, inserting new mannerisms and movement, a different point-of-view character. Where I could, I changed the wording, making it more compatible with the way I was writing the characters. |
This is exactly what I have done as well when I feel it necessary throughout the Legomance I am currently writing. I put an A/N at the beginning of chapters that contain "quotes" and let the readers know that I'm using Tolkien's words, but that I have also modified them just a bit in some cases to better fit the way I have been writing the characters. I will also use a different POV for almost all of those scenes than was used in the books, just to make it a little different. So far, there has been only one chapter where some readers complained about it being too much like the book, which made it seem repetitive (obviously only to those that had actually read the book, though), and that chapter, I admit, did have quite a LOT of quotes from the book in it. But all the others seemed to do fine.
So... I think that you would be perfectly safe using the whole beginning quote, and whatever else you had in mind for the ending. Since they will be the only quotes in the whole fic, and come just at the beginning, and just at the end, I don't think You'll have too many annoyed readers out there. Besides, you would have given proper credit to Tolkien already and forewarned the readers that you would have somewhat lengthy quotes at the beginning and end: if they are really annoyed by that, they can just skim the quotes and get right to the fic.
Whichever way you do it, I'm sure it will turn out just lovely, knowing the way you write!!! I hope your muses wake up soon!! You CAN'T stop writing!!!!  _________________ Though here at journey's end I lie
in darkness buried deep,
beyond all towers strong and high,
beyond all mountains steep,
above all shadows rides the Sun
and Stars forever dwell:
I will not say the Day is done,
nor bid the Stars farewell. |
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