[Galadriel8891]

I know I really oughtn't be asking this but here I go: the Elvish language primarily spoken in the Third Age would be Sindarin, correct?

How many Elves would actually know Quenya (essentially, how common was that knowledge in the Third Age)? Would Aragorn know it to any great extent, or would he just be fluent in Sindarin?

Would Quenya use different characters (for writing) than Sindarin, or is it just a matter of spelling?

And: Is it plausible that Galadriel, old as she was, would know how to read Quenya? (that character, that is, not me when using my screenname...otherwise I wouldn't be asking such a question )

Please forgive my ignorance...

~Galadriel8891

[SpaceWeavil]

In the third age, Sindarin would be the more common Elvish, but some might have learned Quenya in an academic sense. I've seen it referred to as 'the Elven Latin', sometimes used for ceremonial purposes and for official things, whereas Sindarin would be the language people spoke day to day (save the other elves like the Nandor and Falathrim who would speak Sindarin and their own native language amongst themselves).

Galadriel would be able to read and write Quenya as it was her birth tongue, which she would have spoken until going to live in Doriath, (where Quenya was banned after Elwë learned of the Kinslaying).

As for the writing, this is a bit complicated. Basically Rumil the elf in the first age devised the Tengwar as a phonetic system of writing to represent the Quenya language. That system used a series of signs to represent consonants, and then a series of marks, like dots and dashes, to represent the vowel sounds. Feanor is often accredited with devising this system though really he just improved on Rumil's original designs.

When the Noldor came to Beleriand and met up with the Sindar, the Sindar elves adopted this alphabet for their language, but instead of using the little dots and dashes to represent vowels, they used the signs in Feanor's alphabet that did not have a value.

So basically Quenya writing would have little dots and stuff all over it (usually over the preceding consonant) to show vowels, whereas Sindarin writing would not have any little dots. This system was later adopted by the majority of elves, including the Noldor in the Second Age, such as Celebrimbor (as they were used on the Doors of Durin), but Galadriel might still use the old system, since she would have learned that before hand. You could argue that either way.

Not sure if any of that made any sense, sorry

[Neniel]

Well, most of the stuff SpaceWeavil wrote are correct, except for the fact that there were two ways of writing Sindarin with the Tengwar characters:

*1* There's the mode of Beleriand where, like SW said, different characters were used for vowels pretty much like our own alphabets today. That's what you see on the inscription on the gates of Moria. I'm not sure, but I think they were mostly used in some areas of ME by Elves in the past

*2* And then, there's the standard mode. Here, you get to use the same little dots and curls on top of the consonant-letters for vowels like in Quenya, but there's a huge difference. The vowel-marks go on top of the next consonant-letter, whereas in Quenya the vowel-marks go on top of the previous consonant-letter.
i.e. the word "Eru" would be
(e) (u)r in Quenya
(e)r (u) in standard Sindarin

It's because supossedly most words in Quenya ended with a vowel, whereas in Sindarin with a consonant.

It's kinda complicated wthout being able to use the actual tengwar to explain. I hope it makes sense...

[SpaceWeavil]

Edited, after I calmed down and actually read the post. Sorry, yes, I was trying to simplify the explanation and forgot to mention the other Sindarin script. I don't mind admitting that I'm an idiot.

The other 'stuff' I wrote I stand by.

[Neniel]

SW, would you mind me asking a question? Since we happen to be on the subject, what was the difference between the two scripts? Where they used in different places and stuff? It's always been a question of mine... Does anyone else know?

PS: Who the heck would dare calling you an idiot? The rest of the info came from an extensive knowledge of Tolkien's universe... I never knew it was Rumil that devised tngwar, I just assumed it was Fëanor!
PPS: Sorry for the language, 'stuff' may not sound like the best choice of words but hey, my connection's running out and I'm not the most fluent person in english...

[SpaceWeavil]

[Galadriel8891]

SW = idiot? No no no no...I've read your stories, you're far from it.

Interesting, I never knew that there was a specific Quenya-influenced dialect in Imladris (just goes to show how ignorant I am when it comes to Elves...). Very handy bit of information indeed.

So is the inscription on the Ring written using Quenya characters (with the language as that of Mordor, of course)? I think I went to the trouble of picking out which symbol went with which letter and found that the dots and curls stood for vowels...Must find that paper somewhere.

I dunno...I have a question relating specifically to my story and am not sure if I should post it here (I don't want to give away too much). It's something of a minor detail at the moment, but still...Could I PM you, SW, since I know you've read the story (the crossover)?

~Galadriel8891

[SpaceWeavil]

[Neniel]

Hmm, still looking into the different scripts here... There's nothing on Encyclopaedia of Arda.

As for the 'mode of Mordor', I have an idea. I've noticed that the curles for 'o' and 'u' have been reversed in the inscription of the Ring. Could it be that it refers to minor details such as this?

[SpaceWeavil]

[Neniel]

You'll propably come up with much better results than me, my research material is really limited. Still, I know what you mean, most elvish 'courses' just skip the tengwar altogether and the rest give a bare minimum info.