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Scribe
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 4
Location: Betelgeuse
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 Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:39 pm Post subject: Fan Fic Roundtable *contains some slash refs* |
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| Okay, come one and come all for those who were taking part in the earlier discussions on the fan fic recommendation and discussion thread. I'm going to be moving posts from there to this section so bear with me and don't post just yet until I'm done. |
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Ariel
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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With all these recs I am put in mind of a question that I have always wanted to ask.
Maybe it’s just me, but I have always wanted to write a tale that so knocked everyone’s socks off that everyone would talk about it for ages afterwards.
LOL… I have yet to do it.
Now, I don’t write poorly, and I have had several people say that they remembered this or that story that I wrote, but I have yet to answer the driving need I have to write something so amazing that people would want to talk about it long after they read it. I used to work very hard at my fics, hoping that by putting a lot of effort into them, I would create something that would catch the eye of readers, and then I would get depressed when the stories were no more well received than a million other stories I had seen. I would look at the fics that had garnered hundreds of reviews on ff.net and think that the story was not as good as this or that of mine, and yet theirs must have had something that mine did not; some light or brilliance that I couldn’t hope to duplicate.
I’ve justified myself by saying that most people aren’t interested in my subjects, or that they know me by reputation as a person who writes smut but isn’t fond of slash and that puts them off personally so they don’t want to read my things, or that I haven’t publicized my work enough, but I always come down to the realization that my work, while good, just isn’t as good as I’d hope it was.
I guess I have the will to dazzle and the skill only to spark… LOL
Now, I’ve always thought that understanding your limits and keeping yourself humble was a more honest and amiable way of approaching your own work. I’m quite clear on the understanding that no one is ever going to like my stories quite as much as I do, and that’s OK. It’s probably that way for everyone . And I figure it's better to understand that than to be so sold on your own pieces and your own opinion that you force both on everyone around you. I can’t imagine anyone wouldn’t find a person like that insufferable.
But even humility can backfire. Readers and other authors seem to resent it, or maybe they believe your assessment of your own work and don’t bother reading it themselves… or maybe you really aren’t as good an author as you hope you are.
Just wondering what other authors here have as an approach to assessing their own work – or how you promote yourself without seeming like an insufferable git? LOL. I’ve tried a few approaches and none of them have worked – and would love to hear how the rest of you feel. And then there is the question of should you promote yourself? I started this whole fanficcing enterprise with the assumption that if my fics were good enough they would promote themselves… well, they obviously aren’t good enough – In such a case should someone continue to promote themselves or just assume the market has spoken?
Ariel
(Offering up her battered ego in sacrifice to get the discussion going…) |
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Gaslight
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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08 Sep 2003 15:55
Hmmm...I've encountered this same quandry. How to say "Hey, I think my stuff is pretty good. Please give it a read, if you would be so kind" without sounding like a foghorn? I guess I've adopted the tactic of just posting it wherever and taking whatever people choose to give without a bunch of self-promotion. You can't bludgeon people into reading your stuff and giving thoughtful reviews on everything, as attractive as that option may seem sometimes. When I don't get reviews, I like to think that it's due to time constraints and I can relate to that. As a reader, I often don't have time to write more than a small paragraph and sometimes I hope that an author will receive even a one sentence glowing, positive comment well. I hate it when I do that, though -- I feel like I'm royally shafting the author after they have put so much hard work into it -- but sometimes I find that's all time allows.
When I do promote my fics, I just keep to the basics (plot, if there is one) or who is in it. If neither interests them, then chances are they won't read it. It could be that certain characters who are written to death (Legolas, Frodo, etc.) just get lost in the deluge. Fics that have lesser-written characters (particularly orcs and uruk-hai) have their starved little fanbase (yes, we are!) that will find anything written about them because they have to search so long and hard for it. And to find well-written ones that don't treat orcs like rampaging, monstrous idgits (i.e., with at least one thought in their heads) takes even more work. When they find something, they're going to voice their appreciation, more often than not.
Ah, and I'm with you on the dream of writing something that will get hundreds of reviews on ff.net. I have a theory that, in many cases, that number hinges greatly on the number of online friends they have. And since I don't hang out in chat rooms, am no longer in high school/college, don't spend all my time on LOTR message boards/groups/clubs entertaining everyone with the scintillating, snarky personality I don't possess, I'm not cultivating any audience. I think it's a mixture of all things (and I'm speaking about myself and the tons of reviews I'm not getting): lack of connections, subject matter that some people don't like ("Boromir??? Ick!"), a writing style that could, perhaps, be "undistinguished," etc. In fact, I lost a huge potential audience for Passages when I decided NOT to introduce Grima into the story right from Chapter 1. The Grima fangirls got bored and went away. Now when he DOES appear, will they know? Would they want to slog through 16 chapters to finally get to him or just pick up from his first line? *shrugs* It's so unpredictable. But I think the effort that goes into "finding your audience" can be too much work. I'd rather just write and trust to luck that someone will find it and word will spread.
I'm just glad that SOMEONE out there likes my stuff, whether it's 10 people or 100 (and I think I'm somewhere in the middle). Hah, and a final thought...hitch your cart to a franchise. My Lurtz manual has earned me another reader for Passages! |
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Viv
Challenge Admin
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Posted: 08 Sep 2003 15:56 Post subject:
Ariel, I feel the exact same way! And I thought I was the only one. When I was in university (longer ago than I'd like to admit), I won a bunch of writing awards and thought the love-fest would never stop. But the awards dried up shortly after, and the fiction writing I've done in the last several years has been mostly for my own edification. If acclaim and notoriety are anything to go by, I have far from distinguished myself in fic.
And of course that's frustrating and painful and crazy-making. But I can't force people to enjoy something they find boring or bad. I'm still not sure what that spark is that makes people flock to fics I can only describe as mediocre. And *that* is perhaps the most frustrating thing of all: apparently there is a quality that some fics have that make people love them. And I am patently unable to recgonize it or mimic it.
At the risk of cliche, *hugs* to you. I empathise. |
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Ariel
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Posted: 08 Sep 2003 16:34
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Viv wrote:
I'm still not sure what that spark is that makes people flock to fics I can only describe as mediocre. And *that* is perhaps the most frustrating thing of all: apparently there is a quality that some fics have that make people love them. And I am patently unable to recgonize it or mimic it.
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No kidding!
And you don't want to sound bitter or petty and say 'hey, that's not all that good!' but sometimes you really DO feel like saying that. I'll buy some of what Gaslight says in the fan base line, but I DO hang out in chat rooms and I do have online friends... although that may also be my undoing!
It also ties into the writing for the fans or writing for yourself discussion that I have seen pop up periodically on different lists. I tend to write for myself – hoping that there is someone out there who is similar enough to me to want to read my stuff – as Gaslight says she does - but once in a while you just wish you knew what that secret formula that garners the reviews was! LOL.
Yes, I’d also buy the time factor – because I often read things I just don’t have time to review – and I know I’m less likely to review something that is about a character I am not passionate for. Although I will say, the longer I have been writing, the more likely I am to leave a review – even just a ‘good job’ – because though that may not be very constructive, it’s better than nothing. It will also often lead to a correspondence with an author (found my favorite co-author that way ) and that can’t help but be good.
But a final point, at least in LOTRs fanfic, is that there is so much of it out there that IS good… very good… that you end up being hopelessly outclassed by the outstanding pieces. Being a good fanfic writer in this fandom just isn’t good enough… LOL. I think that is why I tend to look for unheralded things and stories that may not be perfect but show something I like. I know what it is like to be overlooked and so try and spread my compliments to places where they might be more appreciated. Unfortunately, that’s about the best way I know of, other than Gaslight’s approach, to keep your popularity as an author and fanfic reader to the barest minimum! LOL!
Ariel |
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Gaslight
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Viv wrote:
When I was in university (longer ago than I'd like to admit), I won a bunch of writing awards and thought the love-fest would never stop.
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Now this is interesting. I'm just the opposite, except that I don't have writing awards or kudos coming out my ears now, either. In school, I wasn't a good writer (well, I had lucky days where I got an A, but it was for dry, factual essays and reports). I remember vividly a story I wrote in freshman English in high school. It was "write anything you want" -- so that's what I did. The teacher hated it, wouldn't even give me a grade on it because "it was so bad," and didn't feel it worth his time to tell me just what was wrong with it. After that I wouldn't think of writing anything creative that I would show others. But I'm a glutton for punishment and my next stab at creative writing class resulted in being ridiculed by the class for a personal memoir essay (I can't even remember the topic of it). A visiting writer took it and ripped it to shreds.
Discouraging? You bet! I wrote for myself and ONLY for myself for the next 10 years. Then I posted an LOTR parody and made some people laugh. They liked it. I started writing my Boromir/OFC fic and there are several people who read it regularly and look forward to each chapter. My Lurtz manual is a tiny hit. I don't know what those 10 years of scribbling for myself did to help me, but even just a few comments would be gratifying after my less-than-auspicious start. Now that I have positive feedback, I do suffer moments of greediness where I want more and more. But I remind myself that I'd rather have no feedback or only a few dribbling comments rather than to hear another "I hate it, but I'm not going to tell you why. |
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bagendbabe
Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 6
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Posted: 08 Sep 2003 20:49
I would just like to say a tentative "hello" ... and big thanks and hugs to Ariel for inviting me!!!
I would love to write something special and post the link but not sure where to link it from ... I don't have a website that will do those things unfortunately.
Help!!! Suggestions and advice pleeeeaaasssee!! |
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Scribe
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 4
Location: Betelgeuse
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Site Admin
Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Posts: 98
Posted: 08 Sep 2003 21:04 Post subject:
I have to admit that I do add a tag line to my update email which is comments as always. Do I go out and try to get reviews? Not really. I won't deny, I like talking about my stories and hearing what people think about them even if it is not always good. That's apart of the learning process isn't it?
I write because I love it, absolutely love it. So I'd write even if I never got another review in my life. I've never taken a creative writing course of anykind but I study the books that are my favourites and get the gist of the writing style. The style of Austen particularly influences my work - Pride and Prejudice. That first line, it is universally known.... is just beautifu - it explain the premise of the entire book in just that opening statement.
If there are books that have changed my world so to speak it would most likely be Mists of Avalon by Marion Bradley Zimmer. Also Stephen King because as much as he churns out the stories sometimes, the man can create a fully fledged fleshed out character in a matter of pages. You many not like the plots of his stories, but I guarantee you'll miss the people at the end of it. My favourite King books are It, the Stand and Salem's Lot because these were all about the people in a horrific situation.
For my personal reading tastes, I like hard core science fiction, anyone who calls Dune anything but a classic will be hunted down and killed. The Foundation series by Isaac Asimov, 2001 and the novels that followed by Arthur C Clarke. Ancient Futures (which has got to be the most mainstream Mary Sue i have ever read) by Traci Harding is amusing if not for the reason I just quoted. Anyone who reads my Triumvirate will see that I pay a slight homage to her in the story by the name of the character Tory. If you've read the book, you'll understand. |
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Ariel
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Posted: 08 Sep 2003 21:46 Post subject:
Hey, welcome, Scribe!
Gotta say I just started reading 'The Patient' and am finding it very interesting. Your formatting for chapter 2 is a little funky :p and I've spotted some typos, but it's got me hooked. When I get more than half a minute together, I'll see if I can finish the silly thing!
on Foundation - It's one of my favorites too. And Dune is a classic, but I can't say as I identify with FH's women as well as those of some female authors I could name. I think he has the right of it when he says that women can see the female side of history and men the male side, but I guess I don't see him as the Kwisatz Haderach of fiction... Every time I get to the end of that story I want to scream 'I don't give a flying &$**$ what history will call me, he marries that wench and I'm outta here!!!!'
hehehehehehe
Welcome BEB! Nice to see another hobbit lass around. If you need help posting something, I'll be happy to give you a hand putting it into the archive. Just let me know.
Ariel |
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Una
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Posts: 21
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Viv wrote:
Quote:
I'm still not sure what that spark is that makes people flock to fics I can only describe as mediocre. And *that* is perhaps the most frustrating thing of all: apparently there is a quality that some fics have that make people love them. And I am patently unable to recgonize it or mimic it.
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Exactly. Sometimes I just want to jump up and down and shout: OY!! There is crappy characterisation, there is inconsistency, there is net speak, the craft is not well honed.
But alas, will anyone listen? *shrug*
Perhaps, in fanfiction it is like in movie/television. Farscape gets axed, and Firefly gets a movie out of its cancellation. Sometimes quality means different things to different ppl :s |
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Hobmom
Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 14
Location: BEWTE
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hello!
Ariel recommended OSA to me, too.
Hi Ariel and Bagendbabe! Watch out the Frodo writers are arriving!
I hope to put some stories up here but for now they are all on Ariel's site or mine.
This is mine. http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/elijahw/Shire-Side_Tales.html
No time for a long post now. But this looks like a very nice place to talk about fics and writng.
Love the color-scheme, too! |
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Ariel
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome, Hobmom!!!
BTW... NICE avatar...
They have a very nice archive here, and though I know your tastes are not as adventurous as mine, I can direct you to some choice bits of prime stuff. The recs so far on this thread (that I have read... gimme some time, gals!) have also been excellent - even though they are not all hobbit fare. I've always liked a wide range of things even though my favorites definitely feature the One Hobbit.
Welcome also to Una! Nice avatar there as well! (She was always my favorite character in Farscape too.)
Ariel |
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Roisin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 449
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Scribe wrote:
The style of Austen particularly influences my work - Pride and Prejudice. That first line, it is universally known.... is just beautifu - it explain the premise of the entire book in just that opening statement.
Anyway, great thread!
Jane Austen....my personal goddess. The ONLY book of hers I don't like so much is Mansfield Park, and the movie was just...oy.
It never ceases to amaze me how NOT dated her work seems, about 200 years later. And her dialogue is incredible. I re-read P and P at least once every six months, and I practically have the first Darcy proposal memorized.
Roisin |
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Una
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Posts: 21
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Posted: 08 Sep 2003 22:50
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Ariel wrote:
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Welcome also to Una! Nice avatar there as well! (She was always my favorite character in Farscape too.)
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Just a quickie not to disturb the flow of the thread.
Aeryn/Claudia has been my icon in all the fandoms I'm using it is a must
Una |
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Gaslight
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Roisin wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me how NOT dated her work seems, about 200 years later. And her dialogue is incredible. I re-read P and P at least once every six months, and I practically have the first Darcy proposal memorized.
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Just like I can't understand why certain fanfics are popular, I can't fathom the popularity of Jane Austen. I so desperately tried to read (and enjoy, since it's a "classic") Pride and Prejudice and my sister had to tie me down to watch that BBC movie. Even with Colin Firth I hated it - and that's saying alot! Everyone in that novel seems bred to annoy. Likewise I've never understood the timeless appeal of the Brontes. Apart from Shakespeare, British literature doesn't grab me until mid-century with Dickens and that master of melodrama, Wilkie Collins. |
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