[NancyBrooke]

To anyone's knowledge is Gondor ever identified with an animal? e.g. Dol Amroth has the swan, Rohan the horse ... what about Gondor?

If not, what about Numenor?

If there's no textual reference, then what animal might you just associate with Gondor?

Any thoughts?

[ellisk]

Well, what comes to mind on first thought are Queen Berúthiel's cats and the Kine of Araw that Vorondil the Hunter used to make the Horn Boromir carried. I can't think of anything else except the tree for Gondor. Interesting question though...

[Haleth]

I thought it was the White Tree of Gondor?

[Rhapsody]

I know I have all the banners Tolkien made somewhere...

Here, this should be useful. This person researched it extremely well.

[NancyBrooke]

There I go trying to stretch the metaphor again ...

What about this part -

[Rhapsody]

I have no clue Nancy, honestly. I checked the UT and Lotr for you, but I couldn't find any reference.

The Royal banner of Gondor was black, with a white tree in blossom under seven stars (RotK, p409). Aragorn II as heir to both Arnor and Gondor used Elendil's banner as had been used at the end of Second Age: black, with a white tree in blossom under seven stars with a silver and gold crown above all (RotK, p145). The banner of the Stewards was plain white (RotK, p403). The banner of Dol Amroth was blue with a silver swan-prowed ship faring the sea (RotK, p279), and their lord also garried gilded banners bearing the swan and ship emblems (RotK, p45).

On Numenor, the white tree Nimloth was just important, so that is why Elendil carried it as well. If you want to pay homage to Elros lineage and you insist on using an animal, why don't you go back to the roots in the first age and refer back to Elwing who was turned into a great white bird.

Thus Maedhros and Maglor gained not the jewel; but it was not lost. For Ulmo bore up Elwing out of the waves, and he gave her the likeness of a great white bird, and upon her breast there shone as a star the Silmaril, as she flew over the water to seek Eärendil her beloved. On a time of night Eärendil at the helm of his ship saw her come towards him, as a white cloud exceeding swift beneath the moon, as a star over the sea moving in strange course, a pale flame on wings of storm. And it is sung that she fell from the air upon the timbers of Vingilot, in a swoon, nigh unto death for the urgency of her speed, and Eärendil took her to his bosom; but in the morning with marvelling eyes he beheld his wife in her own form beside him with her hair upon his face, and she slept.

The Silmarillion: Chapter 24 Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath

Elros, the first king of Numenor was a son of Elwing and Eärendil... Maybe this helps.

[SpaceWeavil]

Maybe an eagle, given that they were important on Numenor? Or some other bird, one of the many seabirds Numenor was famour for?

I'm at my parents' so don't have the books handy to give exact references, but the description of Numenor in Unfinished Tales gives a little account of the type of fauna on Numenor.

SW

[Rhapsody]

[Haleth]

At the risk of making myself extremely unpopular, I don't think there is any mention of Gondor or Arnor being associated with animals. The heraldic symbol, recognizable by all, was the White Tree.

An interesting explanation can be found here. http://www.forodrim.org/gobennas/heraldry/heraldry.htm

It's not unprecedented for nations to use something other than an animal to represent themselves. The Irish have a harp, the French use the fleur-de-lys and Canada has a maple leaf.

[NancyBrooke]

[NancyBrooke]

Just occurred to me - Anorien and Minas Tirith are associated with the sun ... perhaps I can do something with that ...

[Rhapsody]

I know there is a book about Tolkien and symbols (& symbolism) that is on my wishlist to buy and read.. well hmm I can't find the title.

But there is symbolism plenty with Minas Tirith (or Minas Anor) compared to Minas Ithil and Osgiliath.

Osgililaith being the city of kings with the stardome, Minas Ithil was Isildur's stronghold (the moon in Tolkien's works is male is the Maiar Tilion), Minas Anor/Tirith was Anarion's stronghold (with reference to the strong and fierce maiar Arien that even Melkor didn't dare to attack). Let me know if you want the background on that.

The Letters of Tolkien says that Minas Tirith means the Tower of Vigilance. (Letter 131) So maybe there is an animal which could cover that? Perhaps a hawk?

[NancyBrooke]

[Haleth]

Oh, well, Nancy, why didn't you say so?

I'd have to look it up.

I'd guess an octopus or some other sea creature for Numenor.

(No, you didn't just read that.)

[Rhapsody]