[inglor]

What are the correct terms for male elf possesive, female elf psessive, male elves possesive and female elves possesive?
ex: is Ellon's the possesive for Ellon?

Inglor

[SpaceWeavil]

To the best of my knowledge this is how you would do it in Sindarin. For an example you wouldn’t have ‘Arwen’s book’, you would write it ‘the book of Arwen’. With proper nouns and names, as far as I know, you don’t need any other participles, and the name of the possessor follows straight on after the noun, i.e. ‘i barv Arwen’. There’s also the possessive pronouns, for ‘mine’, ‘yours’ etc. but I didn’t think that was what you were asking, right?
Hope this helps.

[inglor]

Here is what I mean: Since I won't use the dreaded term "she-elf" and I get tired of using "female elf", I use "elleth" in my writing when I am refering to a female elf. For instance: "The elleth's hair was blond".

Since the plural for "elleth" is "ellyth" and not "elleths", is there a different spelling of "elleth" that signifies possession

In other words: changing an "e" to "y" makes a word plural, is there a simialr change that signifies possession?

Thanks
Inglor

[NancyBrooke]

Not that I can find, but in researching this question I did come across examples where a noun was altered to reflect posession, though I'm unclear what the system is.

At this site: http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/sindarin_grammar.htm#noun

"The Sindarin noun can act as:

1. A subject, when it is the main part of a noun phrase: Guren bêd enni 'My heart tells me'. Such a noun has a function of the Nominative case. "

How exactly 'heart' (gur) became 'my heart' (guren) is a mystery to me. And, if you can say 'my heart' (your heart, his heart), I don't see why you can't say "her hair was blonde," e.g.

I know it's not exactly what you're looking for, but it might set you on the right path.

If I read "the elleth's" in fan fic, it wouldn't bother me, personally. I think using "elleth" etc. has become an accepted convention among frequenters of this site, although perhaps only a few. I think that would be easier to read than trying to figure out what that possesive noun thing was in the sentence.

PS: The ('s) in English is what they (linguists) call a morpheme, the smallest indivisible unit of meaning. It's not a word in itself, or a contraction, so it doesn't translate, as such.

Can't remember if there are other language equivalents, in French or German, e.g.

Hope this helps, somewhat.

[SpaceWeavil]

Oh, I see what you mean now. What Nancy’s talking about with the ‘guren’ thing are the ‘possessive endings’ for nouns. These are –n for ‘my’, -ch for ‘your’ etc. but there isn’t one for a third person. I would expect you couldn’t say ‘the elf’s whatever’ you would have to say ‘the ‘whatever’ of the elf’, if that makes sense.

Just as a thought, why not use ‘i elleth’ or whatever word you want to use for elf? Or ‘in ellyth’?

[NancyBrooke]

[SpaceWeavil]

Have to admit I can't remember ever using the possessive pronominal endings, [as the site I used called them] as I tend to just use possessive pronouns.

Inglor, just a thought - if what you need is a term for 'the elf's' does it have to be Sindarin? Or could it be Quenya, as then you could use the genetive case, as in 'Eldarion' [of the elves] or what have you?

Was just thinking about this as I ate me tea

[Thuriniel]

If you are using elleth as an option to "she-elf" or "female" while writing in English, then of course you would write:

"The elleth's hair was ... "

Now, if you're talking about translating the full thing into Sindarin, then you need to use the expression: "the hair of the elleth" and translate from there.

The English "-'s" is called the Saxon genitive, used to express possession in the English language, so it wouldn't be used in Sindarin.

[inglor]

Thanks,
Thuriniel, that is what I was meaning, I'll just stick to the 's for possesive

Thanks for the help

Inglor