[Haleth]

This is one for the serious canon geeks.

I am writing a Tolkien fan fic set in Valinor before the Rebellion of the Noldor and I am pondering how, exactly, the Noldor arranged their households.

I can't quite see the upper classes as having a purely medieval household organization with a huge army of servants. To my knowledge, there is no specific mention of elves employing servants.

However, with the amount of work required to run a household, particularly one living in a large house, I cannot envision them having a purely nuclear family arrangement. It simply wouldn't work.

Think about taking a bath. You would have to draw it from the well, haul it into the house, heat it on the stove/fire, and haul it to the tub. Afterwards you would have to haul it all back out again. Aside from the fact that water is very heavy, the entire process would be extremely time consuming. Then again, elves are immortal so maybe they would not share this concern.

It seems to me that people would need to live in groups larger than a nuclear family out of necessity. I cannot picture the Elves as living in a purely communal arrangement (like the 60's) because that is based on an ideal of equality among all and Tolkien's world is very hierarchical.

So...what to do? There is mention of Tolkien's elves having followers. To me, the word followers carries a connotation closer to equals than the word servant but that's just my opinion. Maybe the followers acted in a way we would expect servants to behave.

I could fall back on the structure of the Victorian household, which is something Tolkien would have been familiar with and which seems to be the model he used for the Hobbits in the Shire.

I honestly don't know if this is right. Can anyone offer any suggestions/canon references? It would be much appreciated.

[inglor]

There is so little scene detail in all the non LotR- Hobbit writings

Off the top of my head I remember a reference to the "servants of Celegorm" taking Dior's children. So there is some precedents for "servants". I don't know how much different Victorian households were but I think you would be safe in a feudal type of household. But I would think the differences between classes would not be as drastic, but I imagine there would still be some hard and fast class structure. Maybe more like Renaissance Europe with its Merchant Class and some upward mobility.

I seemed to remember Beleriand seemed to be fuedal and no mention of social upheaval when the Caliquendi claimed thier holdings. Therefore I would assume the same type of arrangment in Valinor.

Wow, this could turn into an essay...

Inglor

[Haleth]

It could easily turn into an essay, couldn't it?

Thanks for the reference to Celegorm's servants. I had forgotten that particular line.

I can picture a hybrid feudal/communal system where the hard manual labour of farming is shared somewhat more equally than it was in the Middle Ages. The higher ranking elves may not have had personal servants the way the medieval nobility or wealthy Victorians did.

Status and (presumably) wealth were determined by leadership ability or whomever Orome thought would be good company on a long road trip. (Ingwe, Finwe and Elwe) For the Noldor, skill in smithing and crafting may have contributed to social status.

Elvish society seems to have lacked the huge disparity between the rich and the poor that we see in medieval and some modern societies. All of the buildings in Tirion are pretty. Slums aren't known for their asthetic attributes.

It's also interesting to note how, except for Fingolfin and Feanor, there were no power struggles within the leading families. Then again, there may have been, we just didn't hear about it. **beats plot bunnies with a very large stick**

[MysteriousWays]

I'm six months late to the conversation but I am wondering what you ended up doing.

I have been asking the house hold question myself for a story that I am working on. I suppose I am going with more of a communal system. I got the idea from LOTR because it is said that Galadriel does weaving. In another series that I really like, the queen of one country is a weaver herself, and in that particular country everyone helps with the work, including the King and Queen. It also brings to mind what little I know of clan structures. Anyhoo, this made sense to me because with so much time on their hands I can see elves preferring to keep busy. Add to this what I see in people, some people just prefer to take care of things themselves. Folding laundry frees the mind for thinking. There is a definate satisfaction to getting a floor really well scrubbed. My mom has always loved mowing the lawn in part because it allowed her to be outside. I've heard of wealthy people expressing the same views. One local couple won big in the lottery, they bought a huge house just to see what it is like to live in one but they are the only household in their neighborhood that does not employ gardners to maintain the property. I think if I were immortal I would be more than happy to fill some hours scrubbing floors and it would keep my mind free to think on important matters.

I've also pondered the possibility of plumbing. The Roman Empire did quite well with developing plumbing and most of what they developed fell into disuse when the empire fell. The romans had developed means of filtering water to clean it, moving it to desired locations, toilet facilities that flushed waste product away. Much of what have in plumbing convenience now, the Romans had before the empire fell. I figured if the Romans could figure out so much in a relatively short time span with the limits of "short" mortal life, then the elves could figure more out, faster, what with their not needing to educate each new generation in what is known before getting into new ideas.

So that is my two cents worth.

[lissaselves]