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RJLCyberPunk
Joined: 15 May 2004
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Location: Ponce, Puerto Rico
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 Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:36 pm Post subject: Legolas a bigot! Damn!!!! |
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Yup he a portrayed as a bigot who would kill non elves without blinking in the 2nd installment the current hobbit movies, I have not red the books so I do not know if this portrayal is accurate or not but is damn interesting s it hows that elves are anything but perfect beings. Wonder if he will sing Amazing grace too LOL.
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Haleth
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 538
Location: The ruins of Tharbad.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Legolas a bigot! Damn!!!! |
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| RJLCyberPunk wrote: | | Yup he a portrayed as a bigot who would kill non elves without blinking in the 2nd installment the current hobbit movies, I have not red the books so I do not know if this portrayal is accurate or not but is damn interesting s it hows that elves are anything but perfect beings. Wonder if he will sing Amazing grace too LOL. |
Elves didn't like Dwarves. Dwarves weren't too keen on Elves. It went back to a 10,000 year old disagreement over payment for making a crown? Necklace? Some piece of jewellery.
By the end of the argument, Thingol, King of the Elves was dead along with most of the people who lived in his household. His underground palace had been sacked. This left an entire kingdom open to attack by Morgoth, who was Sauron's boss.
So, yeah. Legolas was not too keen on Dwarves.
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RJLCyberPunk
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 89
Location: Ponce, Puerto Rico
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Legolas a bigot! Damn!!!! |
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| Haleth wrote: | | RJLCyberPunk wrote: | | Yup he a portrayed as a bigot who would kill non elves without blinking in the 2nd installment the current hobbit movies, I have not red the books so I do not know if this portrayal is accurate or not but is damn interesting s it hows that elves are anything but perfect beings. Wonder if he will sing Amazing grace too LOL. |
Elves didn't like Dwarves. Dwarves weren't too keen on Elves. It went back to a 10,000 year old disagreement over payment for making a crown? Necklace? Some piece of jewellery.
By the end of the argument, Thingol, King of the Elves was dead along with most of the people who lived in his household. His underground palace had been sacked. This left an entire kingdom open to attack by Morgoth, who was Sauron's boss.
So, yeah. Legolas was not too keen on Dwarves. |
You cannot justify Legolas hatred over something that took place 1000s of years before he was even born anymore than you can justify blacks hating whites over African slavery hate is irrational based a lot of times on overzealous emotionalism over long past events.
Anyway I like this potrayal because it explains why he felt compelled o help Gimly in LOTR a hundred years latter or so after the events in the hobbit. It also adds complexity to the elf characters as opposed to being unidimensional quasi angelical beings.
BTW Tauriel is sizzling hot. so I guess we males he a hot she elf to lust after. 
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ZeeDrippyVessel
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 143
Location: deep south
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:54 am Post subject: Re: Legolas a bigot! Damn!!!! |
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| RJLCyberPunk wrote: | | Haleth wrote: | | RJLCyberPunk wrote: | | Yup he a portrayed as a bigot who would kill non elves without blinking in the 2nd installment the current hobbit movies, I have not red the books so I do not know if this portrayal is accurate or not but is damn interesting s it hows that elves are anything but perfect beings. Wonder if he will sing Amazing grace too LOL. |
Elves didn't like Dwarves. Dwarves weren't too keen on Elves. It went back to a 10,000 year old disagreement over payment for making a crown? Necklace? Some piece of jewellery.
By the end of the argument, Thingol, King of the Elves was dead along with most of the people who lived in his household. His underground palace had been sacked. This left an entire kingdom open to attack by Morgoth, who was Sauron's boss.
So, yeah. Legolas was not too keen on Dwarves. |
You cannot justify Legolas hatred over something that took place 1000s of years before he was even born anymore than you can justify blacks hating whites over African slavery hate is irrational based a lot of times on overzealous emotionalism over long past events.
Anyway I like this potrayal because it explains why he felt compelled o help Gimly in LOTR a hundred years latter or so after the events in the hobbit. It also adds complexity to the elf characters as opposed to being unidimensional quasi angelical beings.
BTW Tauriel is sizzling hot. so I guess we males he a hot she elf to lust after. |
Actually, yes one CAN justify this. Elves DID NOT LIKE DWARVES! Period. DWARVES could not stand Elves. Period!
period. Elves probably had the following bumper sticker slapped on their Elk's asses - the only good Dwarf, is a dead dwarf.
Which is sad since when the Dwarves FIRST were awoken and resided in the Blue Mountains, they were on rather friendly terms with the Elves.
Regardless, you probably should read the books because Leggy wasn't IN The Hobbit. PJ thought he'd be a nice addition.
Like he thought Tauriel would be a nice addition...
And nooooo, the Elves weren't perfect. Not at all...Trust me, they could be pretty dang blood-thirsty..
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NancyBrooke
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Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Legolas a bigot! Damn!!!! |
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| RJLCyberPunk wrote: | | Haleth wrote: | | RJLCyberPunk wrote: | | Yup he a portrayed as a bigot ... |
Elves didn't like Dwarves. Dwarves weren't too keen on Elves. It went back to a 10,000 year old disagreement over payment for making a crown? Necklace? Some piece of jewellery.
By the end of the argument, Thingol, King of the Elves was dead along with most of the people who lived in his household. His underground palace had been sacked. This left an entire kingdom open to attack by Morgoth, who was Sauron's boss.
So, yeah. Legolas was not too keen on Dwarves. |
You cannot justify Legolas hatred over something that took place 1000s of years before he was even born anymore than you can justify blacks hating whites over African slavery hate is irrational based a lot of times on overzealous emotionalism over long past events. |
We don't need to justify anything - it's a fiction, and it exists by its own rules. If you want to invent a world where this racial hatred doesn't exist, go to it, play in the AU sandbox, have a blast, that's just what good fic is made from.
Maybe ask a different question? Not 'why did L hate dwarves', but why did Tolkien choose to portray abiding hatred between races? What happens to that hatred in the story, what does it cause and is this seen by the characters to be good or bad?
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NancyBrooke
Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 160
Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Legolas a bigot! Damn!!!! |
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| ZeeDrippyVessel wrote: | Actually, yes one CAN justify this. Elves DID NOT LIKE DWARVES! Period. DWARVES could not stand Elves. Period!
period. Elves probably had the following bumper sticker slapped on their Elk's asses - the only good Dwarf, is a dead dwarf.
Which is sad since when the Dwarves FIRST were awoken and resided in the Blue Mountains, they were on rather friendly terms with the Elves.
Regardless, you probably should read the books because Leggy wasn't IN The Hobbit. PJ thought he'd be a nice addition.
Like he thought Tauriel would be a nice addition...
And nooooo, the Elves weren't perfect. Not at all...Trust me, they could be pretty dang blood-thirsty.. |
and, yeah, what she ^ said.
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ZeeDrippyVessel
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 143
Location: deep south
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Legolas a bigot! Damn!!!! |
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| NancyBrooke wrote: | | ZeeDrippyVessel wrote: | Actually, yes one CAN justify this. Elves DID NOT LIKE DWARVES! Period. DWARVES could not stand Elves. Period!
period. Elves probably had the following bumper sticker slapped on their Elk's asses - the only good Dwarf, is a dead dwarf.
Which is sad since when the Dwarves FIRST were awoken and resided in the Blue Mountains, they were on rather friendly terms with the Elves.
Regardless, you probably should read the books because Leggy wasn't IN The Hobbit. PJ thought he'd be a nice addition.
Like he thought Tauriel would be a nice addition...
And nooooo, the Elves weren't perfect. Not at all...Trust me, they could be pretty dang blood-thirsty.. |
and, yeah, what she ^ said. |
Why thank you very much!
So glad when intelligent people agree with me.
Off to write smut.
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Haleth
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 538
Location: The ruins of Tharbad.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Legolas a bigot! Damn!!!! |
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| RJLCyberPunk wrote: | | Haleth wrote: | | RJLCyberPunk wrote: | | Yup he a portrayed as a bigot who would kill non elves without blinking in the 2nd installment the current hobbit movies, I have not red the books so I do not know if this portrayal is accurate or not but is damn interesting s it hows that elves are anything but perfect beings. Wonder if he will sing Amazing grace too LOL. |
Elves didn't like Dwarves. Dwarves weren't too keen on Elves. It went back to a 10,000 year old disagreement over payment for making a crown? Necklace? Some piece of jewellery.
By the end of the argument, Thingol, King of the Elves was dead along with most of the people who lived in his household. His underground palace had been sacked. This left an entire kingdom open to attack by Morgoth, who was Sauron's boss.
So, yeah. Legolas was not too keen on Dwarves. |
You cannot justify Legolas hatred over something that took place 1000s of years before he was even born anymore than you can justify blacks hating whites over African slavery hate is irrational based a lot of times on overzealous emotionalism over long past events. |
Well, one or two other incidents of unpleasantness happened during those several thousand years.
Somewhere in Lord of the Rings Gandalf says that the strife between the races was one of the greatest accomplishments of the Enemy (first Morgoth, then Sauron).
Nasty deeds have a way of being remembered and repeated through time. Claiming that people can't use something that happened a thousand years ago as an excuse for bad behavior ignores the fact that both sides will do exactly that over and over again. Each subsequent nasty act will create new bad feelings which continues the feud and justifies the next round of bad behavior. The grudges accumulate over time until entire groups of people can't stand the sight of each other. Thingol's death at the hands of the dwarves was just the beginning.
Being white, I'm not going to go anywhere near your slavery analogy. But watching the news, I'd have to say that African-Americans are upset over more than slavery, just like Native Americans are upset over more than the settlement of their traditional territories by other people. Those events were just the beginning. There have been many, many other things that have happened since. Pretending they didn't happen doesn't make those events go away. It would take a really, REALLY big person to set all of those things aside.
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Rhapsody
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Posts: 1153
Location: Maglor's Lap
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Legolas a bigot! Damn!!!! |
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[quote="RJLCyberPunk wrote">]You cannot justify Legolas hatred over something that took place 1000s of years before he was even born anymore than you can justify blacks hating whites over African slavery hate is irrational based a lot of times on overzealous emotionalism over long past events.[/quote]
Have you been in the Netherlands off late?
| ZeeDrippyVessel wrote: |
Actually, yes one CAN justify this. Elves DID NOT LIKE DWARVES! Period. DWARVES could not stand Elves. Period!
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Not all elves hated Dwarves. The Noldor did like them a lot, especially if you consider the heroism the dwarves of Belegost did display during the 5th battle (Nirnaeth Oernidad). Because of them, the sons of Fëanor did escape, they did kill Glauring, lost their lord... Celebrimbor, the last surviving elf of Fëanor's house worked closely with dwarves in the 2nd age.
So the Doriathrim (and later on folks of Mirkwood and Lothlorien) do loath and hate dwarves, a Noldo does not. 
Just saying.
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Alassante
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Also black and white people are different races of the same species. Dwarves and elves are different species so its not that far fetched for them to not like each other. Lions eat deer so I doubt deer are fond of lions. Most people don't like spiders or snakes for no reason other than they are creepy. So for Elves and Dwarves to hate each other is about the same thing as Dragons and Balrogs hating men and elves. It would be more accurate to say Noldor elves hating Sindarin elves as being racist.
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RJLCyberPunk
Joined: 15 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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First of all I know that Legolas is not in the book and tat Tauriel is not even bool canon that's besides the point though. In the LOTR movies Gimly and Legolas become friends so it was kind of surprising in a good way to see the character changing his tune about many things.
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Viv
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Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, the races are in conflict, but that's what makes the Legolas/Gimli friendship in the LoTR so flippin awesome. It's a transmutation of the age-old hostilities, not to mention a good ol' bromance Romeo and Juliet.
Which is why I was pretty annoyed at the Tauriel/dwarf melodrama in the Hobbit movies. The wonder of a dwarf/elf friendship in LoTR was wondrous because it was unprecedented. And then PJ went and gave us a precedent. A recent one. Grrr.
I have other problems with the Hobbit movies, but I did go see all of them in the theatres, and I took the kiddos, and furthermore I thought they were fun, definitely had high points. And visual fodder for imagining a Bard/Thranduil naked dance-off in my parlor. Or maybe that was just me. |
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RJLCyberPunk
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | Yeah, the races are in conflict, but that's what makes the Legolas/Gimli friendship in the LoTR so flippin awesome. It's a transmutation of the age-old hostilities, not to mention a good ol' bromance Romeo and Juliet.
Which is why I was pretty annoyed at the Tauriel/dwarf melodrama in the Hobbit movies. The wonder of a dwarf/elf friendship in LoTR was wondrous because it was unprecedented. And then PJ went and gave us a precedent. A recent one. Grrr.
I have other problems with the Hobbit movies, but I did go see all of them in the theatres, and I took the kiddos, and furthermore I thought they were fun, definitely had high points. And visual fodder for imagining a Bard/Thranduil naked dance-off in my parlor. Or maybe that was just me. |
Nice to hear from you Viv. Yes Tauriel in many ways is the Jar Jar Binks of the Tolkien movie universe. What do you think of the TV show about The Shanara Chronicles BTW to me is like a post apocalyptic really messed up version of Middle Earth LOL.
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