[sindohte]

Hello folks. Just setting things up for the beginning of our Silm Readers' Group. Discussion of the first selection will start on Tuesday 3/23 (or likely earlier) for some eager people

Anyone wandering by this thread should feel free to raise questions or make comments.

Please try to keep the comments on this thread strictly related to discussion of the Silm.

[sindohte]

Well here's something that I learned today - the music of the Ainur contained within the water. So would this explain why the sound of the sea calls Elves West to Valinor?

And the singing of the Ainur reminded me of the Pythagorean concept of the music of the spheres. http://www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/math5.geometry/unit3/unit3.html#Music%20of%20the%20Spheres

Does anyone know if that was Tolkien's intent when he wrote the Ainulindale?

[Andreth]

I remember reading somewhere that the water of Arda is one of the few things that wasn't fully tainted by the Shadow of Morgoth and it still retained a lot of the purity of how Arda originally was. And I think the call of the sea had something to do with that and it seems like I remember it having something to do with Ulmo, too, but I can't remember off hand.

I know the Nazgul were afraid of water and people say Tolkien never said why, but it's my opinion that this is why. The pureness of the water frightens them off.

[sindohte]

In traditional folklore, evil creatures are unable to cross running water.

[Andreth]

Yes, supposed to be a way to be shed of witches. That's how I always escaped my mother in law.

But now that I've typed that I seem to remember that the Witch-king was the only one not scared of water, or at least not as scared as the other eight. Okay, I'm going to go over the first chapter of the Silm tonight so I'll have plenty of questions for tomorrow.

[Meleka]

[Meleka]

Okay,

I found that at parts i had to stop and actually draw a diagram to get my head around some of the ideas. (but i do that all the time). I also found some paragraphs going over my head, im sure it'll get easier the more i read the book.

Its totally different to reading LoTR or the hobbit (the only two ive read). Harder to read but also more fascinating like how the ainur came into being and that their singing creating Ea.

To learn that Melkor was the most powerful and knowledgable of the Ainur. Gives you and idea of really how dangerous he was.

[BittenBuggy]

In the beginning he was, he looses a lot of that power as the book progresses.

[Sorcia]

I asked the brotherinlaw type person in my life if I could borrow his copy...and he laughed and said 'Good Luck' when I explained what we were up to. He had difficulty with it also and said, just take it very slowly
The question I have concerns Melkor: obviously something twigs within him, jealousy I guess, over the entire creation and it not being his idea nor 'bending' initally to 'his' thoughts on outcome BUT I wondered how he could 'feel' jealous as I thought all beings out of the Void would have been without taint? But guess perhaps the Void itself would contain both positive and negative engeries then? Making any sense here?

[BittenBuggy]

Thats a semi-theological question that I will allow someone else to answer... On the grounds that I haven't the slightest clue what to tell you

[Elentari]

[BittenBuggy]

[sindohte]

It was interesting to note that in this version of a creation story, it was not merely a single omnipotent divine being who created Arda, but rather a divine being who served as the conductor of an otherworldly symphony. Now to put on my music major hat for a minute and bring up the concepts of consonnance and dissonance.

If the music of the Ainur had only been based on all the voices being in perfect harmony, then Arda would have been some perfect utopia. While lovely and all that, it would have been lacking in some way. The introduction of Melkor's opposing melody, opened the door for conflict and struggle. And in order for a piece of music, or the creation of a world to be successful, there has to be consonnance and dissonance.

[Elentari]

[Anna]

Yes Sorcia, you do make sense. At least in my world... (not entirely sure that is a good thing, though).

The big question is Melkor, I think. But, then again, I´m quite partial to the poor thing...
Eru must have known Melkor would react like that. Right? So why did He make Melkor the most powerful one if He already knew how it would turn out? I know, I´m not the first person wondering about this... It really bothers me, though!
I mean; Eru creates Melkor, giving him "the greatest gifts of power and knowledge" plus a matching personality, then He punishes him when he (Melkor) lives up to it. Or was Melkor supposed to resist the temptation? Hmm...I don´t know... Maybe I´m just plain dumb! Anyone who cares to explain a thing or two? Please, enlighten me!