[Mitasova]

For the fic that's slowly brewing up in the back corner of my mind, I'd like to clarify this: were Citadel Guards paid for their service or were they not? Of all ME troops that are described in any detail, they were the closest to regular army. They were fed and given uniforms (I'm not sure about weapons). What about money?

Opinions?
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Tanya

[Vilwarin]

I think they got money. You get money for every job you do. Uniforms, food and weapons are not the only thing you need. They may have a family to feed too.

[NancyBrooke]

I'd go with that. If you wanted this to have a dramatic element, you could add the idea of deffered pay. And sometimes armies are paid what they can't spend, or can only spend in certain places - company stores, commissaries and the like.

[BittenBuggy]

Hmm, or they could have just been put through college

But really, they might have gotten housing allowances (or having something like the barracks if they didn't have family yet), depending on their rank in addition to perhaps food. But I would see them definately getting paid.

[Mitasova]

Thanks for the suggestions, folks. You confirmed my tentative guesses, so thanks muchly.

If I may venture in another direction a bit, what do you think Gondorian military structure was like? We have Captain-General (commander-in-chief), Captains (chiefs of the main forces) and Leutenants. I'm not counting lords of the provinces and their pretty much private hosts here, (i.e. Dol Amroth, Morthond and so forth), 'cause I'm interested mainly in regular troops. My main concern is: what the title "leutenant" entail? For example, Faramir is a Captain; Mablung is Faramir's leutenant. What that means: second in command? Chief of one of the smaller forces? If the latter, which one - a thousand? A hundred? I'd think a hundred, for I don't see Rangers as a particularly numerous division - they don't appear to fit with a kind of warfare Gondor preferred.

If you could make heads and tails from my ramblings, what'd you think on the subject?
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Tanya

[BittenBuggy]

Ok, Lessons on military rank:

In America, it is as follows for the Marine Corp:

Private = E-1
Private First Class = E-2
Lance Corporal = E-3
Corporal = E-4
Sergeant= E-5
Staff Sergeant = E-6
Gunnery Sergeant = E-7
First/Master Sereant = E-8
Sergeant Major/Sergeant of the Marine Corp = E-9

'E' stands for enlisted. They are the ones who never went to college.

You also have whats called 'Warrent' Ranks but that is really not aplicable here.

'O' Stands for Officer - they try to keep things simple in the military. In the Marine Corp, the Army, and the Air Force, all officers rankings are the same. It is only the Navy that differs. The officers ranks in the Marine Corp are as follows:

Midshipman = (no number ranking)
Second Lieutenant = O-1
First Lieutenant = O-2
Captain = O-3
Major = O-4
Lieutenant Colonel = O-5
Colonel = O-6
Bridadier General = O-7
Major General = O-8
Lieutenant General = O-9
General = O-10

Officers in the Navy:

Midshipman
Ensign
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Lieutenant
Lieutenant Commander
Commander
Captain
1-star Admiral (Rear Admiral Lower Half)
2-star Admiral (Rear Admiral Upper Half)
3-star Admiral (Vice Admiral)
4-star Admiral (Admiral)

In times of war, there is also a 'Fleet Admiral'

[Ellbee]

Just going by what I know of the U.S military, specifically the Army, a captain is usually in charge of a company. The numbers in a company can vary, but say between 100 and 200 people (the company my husband is in now has 160.) The company is split into 4 platoons, and a lieutenant is usually in charge of each platoon. Each platoon has 4 squads, with a sergeant in charge. (These are all approximate numbers, and depend on the military specialty.) This way the company can be split up for smaller missions, or work in concert for a larger scale mission. I don't know how other countries split their military, but that might be a way to start.

-Ell

[Anna]

Wow!

[BittenBuggy]

Sorry! Didn't know we were looking for how many each commands as well. Here:

Four Star General
Only officers who show great leadership and loyalty become four-star generals.

Three Star General
An officer in the Army, Air Force, or Marines who is above the rank of Major is a Three Star General.

Major General
Commands a division which is 10,000 to 15,000 soldiers.

Brigadier General
Commands a brigade within a division.

Colonel
Usually commands a regiment within a division.

Lieutenant Colonel
Usually commands a battalion made up of 300 to 1,000 soldiers. A battalion is within a regiment.

Major
Serves as a staff officer to a regiment or division commander.

Captain
A captain usually commands a company with a battalion.

First Lieutenant
May command platoons or companies.

Second Lieutenant
Lowest ranking commissioned officer.

Sergeant Major of the Army
Highest rank for a soldier.

Command Sergeant
Carries out standards, performances, training, and conduct to
soldiers.

Sergeant Major
The key enlisted member of a battalion.

Master Sergeant
The lead non-commissioned officer at the battalion and sometimes higher levels.

Sergeant First Class
Most candidates have at least 15 years experience. Referred to as Senior NCO’s or Non-Commissioned Officers.

Staff Sergeant
Has more time and experience in the Army than the Sergeant.

Sergeant
Non Commissioned Officer above a Corporal.

Corporal
Lowest non-commissioned officer, often commands a squad.

Private First Class
Grade above private.

Private
lowest rank of enlisted men.

[Mitasova]

Whew, BB, that was very educational. Thanks. I think the easiest way to go is with number-based ranking, e.g. tens, hundreds, thousands. Chiefs of thousands would be leutenants. Of course, the numbers are very approximate: a so-called hundred could have 150 men in good time and only 50 or so in bad time.

At least that's what I think after sleeping on it.
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Tanya

[BittenBuggy]

Chingis Khan was pretty much the founder of the types of military ranking systems we have today. The organization of the army was based on the decimal system. The largest unit was the tjumen, which was made up of 10,000 troops. A large army used to consist of three tjumens (Plural form t'ma in Mongolian), one consisting of infantry troops who were to perform close combat, the two others were meant to encircle the opponent from both sides. Each tjumen consisted of ten regiments, each of 1,000 troops. The 1,000 strong unit was called a mingghan. Each of these regiments consisted of ten squadrons of 100 troops, called jaghun, each of which was divided into ten units of ten, called arban. There was also an elite tjumen, an imperial guard which was composed of specially trained and selected troops. As for the command structure, the ten soldiers of each arban elected their commander by majority vote, and all of the ten commanders of the ten arbans of a tjumen elected the commander of a jaghunby the same procedure. Above that level, the khan personally appointed the commanders of each tjumen and mingghan. This appointment was made on criteria of ability, not age or social origin.

The commanders of tjumens and mingghans had the military title of noyon. A commander of a whole army, which as mentioned typically consisted of three tjumens or more of light cavalry and in addition several mingghans of artillery, carried the title of orlok. In other words, the orlok was the commanding general.

Hope that helps.

[Mitasova]

I think that decimal system is more ancient then that. Old-Russian army (pre-Mongol) consisted of private hosts of the princes and the militia, provided by cities. Militia's organization was definitely based on decimal system - tens, hundreds, thousands - with elected officers and a "voevoda" (warlord) as a chief of each city's formation. About princes' hosts, though, I'm not quite sure.

Thanks for the info, though. Very interesting.
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Tanya