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Viv
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Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 1:26 pm    Post subject: Tips Reply with quote

Seems to me there are some pretty durned good writers on this archive. Most folks here have obviously spent a lot of time honing this craft, working on intricate things like pacing and dialog and characterization. And I know that sometimes folks are reluctant to leave detailed reviews, even when they'd really like to say something like, "Your transitions were off" or "Your intro paragraph just didn't grab me."

Still, these tips could be very helpful to the rest of us. Care to share some of your wisdom?
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sindohte



Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Tips Reply with quote

Viv wrote:
And I know that sometimes folks are reluctant to leave detailed reviews, even when they'd really like to say something like, "Your transitions were off" or "Your intro paragraph just didn't grab me."

Still, these tips could be very helpful to the rest of us. Care to share some of your wisdom?


Viv,

While I do agree that detailed reviews would be excellent because I know that it would be helpful for me and Roisin to receive detailed feedback such as what you mentioned when we finally unleash FrankenFic. In my opinion, the point of writing and then sharing your work with the world is to receive feedback that will hopefully improve your writing. However, this is just me wildly hypothesizing, because I wonder if every author out there wants assistance in improving their transitions or making their sentence structure flow more smoothly.

I hate to use Fanfiction.net as a whipping boy, but I have encountered quite a few stories posted there where the author puts it right in the disclaimer section that they don't want feedback of a truly constructive nature to improve their writings skills. Their attitude seems to be - this is my story, if you don't like it - whatever. I can remember one particularly egregious example of this type of attitude. It was a LOTR fic where the author basically posted nothing but pure dialogue between the nine members of the Fellowship.

The author attempted to be helpful by indicating at the beginning of each section of dialogue something like - The members of the Fellowship are now in the Mines of Moria. Here is an approximation of the rest of the scene.

Frodo - We are lost, will we ever find our way out of here?

Pippin - I am hungry. When will we eat.

Legolas - It is dark and I am scared (Just added that to be wicked, lol)

Gandalf - Be quiet everyone, I need to think.


I would have loved to have told the author very nicely that while dialogue is important to a story and helps to move it along and allows insight into the characters at the same time, it is not the end all and be all. Some description of the Mines of Moria would have been helpful in this particular case because without it, the reader is left floundering.

I know that the forums are not for posting work to be beta read. However, I wonder if after someone publishes a story and desires to have detailed feedback, could this particular section of the forum be used as a type of writers clinic or workshop?

Just my five cents on the matter.

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JennnLee



Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 123
Location: Orlando, FL

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am definitely all for a discussion about different writing tips and tricks, but I have to say that I'm a little confused about the what's being suggested here. Viv, are you suggesting that, say, I post here and say "This is the process I go through when I'm writing dialogue..." Or is this where I say "Hey Scribe, how the heck are you so good at setting a scene?" Or do I say "Hey Ell, the next time you write pointless Legolas smut, you might want to do it THIS way..." I'm confused. But with the week I've had, that's an easy thing to do... Hmmm
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Roisin



Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 449
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing that would be helpful for me would be a place I could post and ask a canon question that I can't find the answer to in my own books.

Roisin
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NancyBrooke
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Joined: 11 May 2003
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Location: In a motel 6 by the airport

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roisin wrote:
Another thing that would be helpful for me would be a place I could post and ask a canon question that I can't find the answer to in my own books.

Roisin
I think you've got that in either this section of the forum or the book discussion section. When I log onto this site I always check what posts have been made since the last time I logged in (a great feature, by the way) so anywhere you put it it'll be seen and, likely, heavily and happily discussed!

~N~
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NancyBrooke
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JennnLee wrote:
I'm a little confused about the what's being suggested here But with the week I've had, that's an easy thing to do... Hmmm

Hmmmm, it's not just you - I was/am confused, too. Clarification, please?
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Roisin



Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 449
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Frodo - We are lost, will we ever find our way out of here?

Pippin - I am hungry. When will we eat.

Legolas - It is dark and I am scared (Just added that to be wicked, lol)

Gandalf - Be quiet everyone, I need to think.


I seriously want that for my sigline. ROFL

Roisin
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Viv
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Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, what I meant was precisely what you've already pointed out: things that make fic better. For instance, showing the scene, not just the dialog. I've read a bunch of fic (some recently, and some on this archive) that is not much more than glorified dialog.

So, tip: Add scene details.

And just general stuff that good writers assume everyone knows, like don't use the verb "to be" very often, don't use adverbs unless you absolutely have to, try to tie one scene to the next with a transition.

Have a beginning, middle, and end (and, if you really want to impress, include some character development!).

That sort of thing.
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JennnLee



Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 123
Location: Orlando, FL

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get what you're saying, Viv, but I don't understand the context of the discussion. So are you suggesting that I post and say "I read Blah's story called 'Blah Blah Blah' and here's what I think should be done to improve it," or does Blah herself post and say "What can I do to improve my story 'Blah Blah Blah'?" Or should we just have a more free-form discussion?

I'm definitely all for talking about writing. Try and stop me from talking about it, actually. I don't write a lot of fanfic, but I am working on the second draft of what I hope will be my first real novel, so I feel like I eat, sleep, and breathe the written word lately. Smile So bring it on!
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Viv
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Joined: 24 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JennnLee wrote:
Or should we just have a more free-form discussion?


Yes! Specific references to stories might hurt some feelings, but general suggestions might be helpful to everyone.

Bring it on indeed. Bounce
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NancyBrooke
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Joined: 11 May 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2003 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Viv wrote:
JennnLee wrote:
Or should we just have a more free-form discussion?


Yes! Specific references to stories might hurt some feelings, but general suggestions might be helpful to everyone.

Bring it on indeed. Bounce


I'm sorry to be dense, but, for the thread impaired out there ... what you're suggesting is that we should post in this forum general writing tips, perhaps in response to fic we've read though non-specifically. Is that it?
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sindohte



Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an interesting and useful thread, but I'm a bit confuzalated myself. When it comes to learning about how to improve my writing, I find that reading examples of someone else's work or having someone correct my work to be the best way to figure out how to fix things that I need to brush up on. If something like that was to occur in this forum, it seems to me that writers would have to volunteer their work to be used as a way to illustrate strengths in their writing style or weaknesses which they need to devote some additional attention in order to develop more fully as a writer. Does this seem to be the general direction of this particular discussion or am I way out in left field?
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Maram68
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Joined: 11 May 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Tips Reply with quote

Viv wrote:
And I know that sometimes folks are reluctant to leave detailed reviews, even when they'd really like to say something like, "Your transitions were off" or "Your intro paragraph just didn't grab me."

Still, these tips could be very helpful to the rest of us. Care to share some of your wisdom?


Okay, I think this was straight to the point. As in if you read a fic and stumble upon something that could be improved (without rewriting the whole story), be so nice and at least give it a try and tell the author.

We know there are some authors that will not enjoy criticism of any kind, even if its constructive. For me, these people should not go public, as simple as that. But others would like to improve their writing skills for future works.


But that brings us back to the review issue. There is so little reviewing, that I dare say that expecting anybody to go beyond the "oooooh nice work!" feedback is just too much.

There are exceptions which confirm the rule. But I agree with Viv. There is so much writing talent in this archive, that it would be great if it would help those less gifted.

That's my two-cents of the day Cool

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