[Ithilien]

I've read up on the history of Dol Amroth but still have a few questions about the small fiefdom.

1) I was wondering if any one had a vague interpretation of what the Castle of Dol Amroth would look like. Obviosly the white ship design and flowing lines would play a large role into the castle's architecture, but it is the general size of the castle that bothers me.

Also because, I assume, it would house the Royal Family of Dol Amroth would it be safe to assume that servants live in with them?

2) For the coronation of Elessar, Tolkien mentioned that musicians from Dol Amroth arrived to play at the festivities. So would it be safe to assume that Dol Amroth is mainly an artistic marketplace. I mean all the ambieance is true... I stretch of assumption I know, but could it be plausible.

3) Possibly an exteremly stupid question, but what kind of political role would Dol Amroth in context with Gondor. Rohan had the Oath of Eorl renewed with Gondor, but would Dol Amroth also have an oath. Or would an Oath be useless as Gondor and Dol Amroth were so entwined by bloodlines.

If you can sift through this rambling of questions and help me out it would be greatly appreciated.

Much thanks.

Lepeka

- Oh yeah, sorry about the title but I was stumped for an interesting quotes and the poem from Alice in Wonderland is always a goody.

[SpaceWeavil]

The question about Dol Amroth’s political relationship within Gondor is something I’d like to know the answer to as well, as it’s something I could never get my head around, (and I will need to if I ever want to finish my Denethor/Finduilas epic which is lurking on my hard drive).

As for the musicians, if I remember rightly, it said something about the harp players of Dol Amroth being the best you could find anywhere, so they were invited to play at Aragorn’s coronation.

When I was thinking about it for that Denethor story, I did a google search for images of Dol Amroth, just to see what happened, and found quite a nice painting of the castle and some lighthouses sitting on the coastal rocks, which influenced my story quite a bit. If someone can explain to me how to do it, I could try and post that image in a forum post.

If that’s any help?

[SilverMoonLady]

oohh... well at least post the link darling!
I have no clue how to do the post pix thingy, but I'd love to see the picture:)

[SpaceWeavil]

Yay! Mastered it. This is the pic I found. I kind of went mad on Dol Amroth, description wise, but I started off with this picture. I must finish that Denethor story at some point as I’ve only gotten as far as chapter 1. But I’ll need my Dol Amroth research for the story I’m doing now anyway.

[SilverMoonLady]

wow! Very classically fantastic! There has to be at least one place like this in Middle-Earth, and Dol Amroth fits the bill:)
Thank you!
Now stop promising these lovely stories and get working, you tease!

[Ithilien]

[SpaceWeavil]

I had a look in some of the reference books I have on Tolkien and there is a distinct lack of information on Dol Amroth to be honest. The only vague thing I found was that it referred to Dol Amroth as part of a fiefdom, which would maybe suggest that the city and the surrounding land in Belfalas was granted to the princes in return for service to the Steward / King / whatever. That would suggest to me that there would be some sort of formal oath of allegiance taken, maybe upon inheriting the title? When a new prince wants to assume control over Dol Amroth he has to first pledge loyalty to Gondor or something maybe?

If that’s the case then it is believable that the Princes and Stewards could share bloodlines (although that, again, has always confused me). I could feasibly see someone granting lands to his relatives to control, so long as they agree to be loyal to him and not try to usurp the Stewardship/throne.

Does that actually make the slightest bit of sense? As I am actually just plotting down thoughts at the moment.

[NancyBrooke]

Cabbages and Kings:

Dol Amroth is not itself a country or ruling body on the level of Gondor. It is the Capital city of the Fief of Belfalas; Belfalas is one of the Seven Fiefs of Gondor (Anórien, Ithilien, Lebennin, Lossarnach, Belfalas, Anfalas, and uh, (oops, had to look up my own poetry, there) Lamedon). The Fiefs have unspecified but clearly subordinate relationships to Gondor as self-governing states within the country. Each has its own leaders. Belfalas, e.g. is ruled by the Prince of Dol Amroth (Imrahil, at the time of the WoTR) while Lossarnach is ruled by a Lord (Forlong the Fat).

It's nice to think of Dol Amroth as being the cultural, artistic counterpart to Minas Tirith's martial culture, but there's no case for that being the city's defining aspect. I think the only thing you can assume about Belfalas's culture is that it is primarily sea-going. They've got the largest and most protected harbor in all of Gondor, with two significant cities on its shores (I think Belfalas is the only fief with two cities; maybe it's rich, too). It's reasonable to assume Dol Amroth also had a standing fighting force; the 700 men Imrahil brings to MT are well armed and well trained. One could even argue Dol Amroth was the seat of Gondor's fleet since Sea power was vital to Gondor's perpetual submission of the Corsairs and enemies to the South East.

It seems weird to me that the rulers of the Seven Fiefs would have to swear oaths to Gondor all the time. The Atlas of Middle Earth shows Belfalas as being part of Gondor since Gondor's establishment by Elendil after the destruction of Numenor, so a really long time. But, perhaps, if you really love the idea, I could see it happening on the ocassion of a new ruler taking office.

I think Eomer's renewing the Oath was more symbolic than traditional; I don't find any evidence in the text that every King of Rohan did it.

I know, this is me: but I hope it's helpful.

[SpaceWeavil]

I was hoping you’d answer the question Nancy since you know so much about Gondor etc. and this is what’s held up my Denethor thing, as I have to tackle the relationship with Adrahil in the next chapter, but my research wasn’t getting very far.

The only reason I could see them having some sort of oath/pledge type thing is simply because of the use of the word ‘fief’, which specifically is a bit of land granted to a nobleman or vassal in exchange for service (in the feudal system). My thinking was just that if the land was given to a relative of the king/steward in exchange for service then I would have thought there would be some sort of ceremony, maybe just for the sake of it, to mark this. I don’t know though. So there doesn’t seem to be a lot of information on Dol Amroth anywhere. Nothing in the HoME?

As for culture, I invented most of it for my story, I will admit. I took it from the basis that it is a port/coastal town, so apart from its navy it would probably have quite a large fishing community. Then I kind of based it on the fishing towns around Fife that I grew up near.

One question though. When exactly did Dol Amroth become a fief of Gondor? As opposed to an elven castle/city? I thought it would be after the fall of Númenor, but I’m not sure.

Again I am rambling thoughts here, but this is very interesting to me, as I’ve got two stories that will have parts set in Dol Amroth.

[NancyBrooke]

[SpaceWeavil]

I was just hunting through the Unfinished Tales for some challenge story research and I found this, in the History of Galadriel and Celeborn;

[SpaceWeavil]

There’s actually quite a lot on Dol Amroth in Unfinished Tales in the History of Galadriel and Celeborn, in the section on Amroth and Nimrodel, now I look at it properly.

What’s interesting is that here it says there is a traditional belief that the princes of Dol Amroth have a partly elven bloodline, since one of Imrahil’s ancestors married an elf-maiden.

[NancyBrooke]

I'm not familiar with the HoME and Unfinished Tales, but was perusing a cheat sheet I have on them and would also point you to "The Peoples of Middle Earth" which seems to have a section on the Heirs of Elendil in which there's a section about Dol Amroth and the geneaology of its rulers. That might tell us what we need to know.

Yes, I think it's clear that it was settled before MT or MI, it being so much more accessible from Numenor, but when, exactly, I don't know.

[Roisin]

I wonder why Miithrellas left him? There's a plot bunny in there.

Roisin

[SpaceWeavil]