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Ania
Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 198
Location: Britain
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 Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:09 pm Post subject: Courtesans/Ladies of noble birth... |
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I am really confused about this, in several fics that I have read, there is frequent reference to courtesans and ladies of noble birth being within the royal courts and dining within the great dinning halls at dinners and such. But I was curious, what is the actual information relating to women of high standing? Were there such things as courtesans? Would they have dined with the lords at dinners (albeit on lower tables). Did they (for want of a better expression) king-hunt (flirt with princes to secure place in providing royal succession).
I mean particularly in relation to Gondor as am in dire need of info for fic, but was wondering generally (in the world of men, not elves), I know that Professor Tolkien purposefully avoided many main female roles. But does anyone know any specific info? |
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NancyBrooke
Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 160
Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Courtesans/Ladies of noble birth... |
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| Ania wrote: | I am really confused about this, in several fics that I have read, there is frequent reference to courtesans and ladies of noble birth being within the royal courts and dining within the great dinning halls at dinners and such. ...
I mean particularly in relation to Gondor as am in dire need of info for fic, but was wondering generally (in the world of men, not elves), I know that Professor Tolkien purposefully avoided many main female roles. But does anyone know any specific info? |
Nothing specific, and therein lies my answer.
As far as I know, the Professor wrote vitually nothing about 'daily' life in the Court at Minas Tirith, so I think it's open season here, and we'd be naive to think Gondor was a courtesan-free zone.
But let me give you two things to think about before you toss anybody into bed:
1) Minas Tirith at the time of the War of the Ring is a city at war, gradually being deserted by its people. "It already lacked half the men that could have dwelt at ease there" says JRRT, and, as Pippin looks out over the Pelennor from the Citadel he sees "most of the traffic went out" and "the street seemed to be choked with great covered wains going south." Theirs is largely a militaristic culture, and the flame of Orodruin has been lit for over 60 years already so you'd have to go back some to find a time when there might have been normal courtly feasting etc. Plus, think about Denethor: probably not one for the parties.
2) My dictionary defines "courtesan" as "a prostitute or paramour (ilicit lover), esp. one associating with noblemen or men of wealth", so I imagine them keeping well behind the scenes. I mean, imagine you're sitting at a feast and you see a woman you've been with (and paid in some fashion) dining down the table with another nobleman - how would you feel about her, and him? Probably not very respectful. And would you want as your heir the child of a (former) courtesan? Could you be sure all your worldly goods were going to your child? Lastly, with Gondorian culture essentially revolving around the 'blood of Numenor' I doubt any courtesan on a king-hunt would be very successful.
Still, it's fun to think about as it provides smut opportunities.
Good luck; hope this negativity is somehow helpful.
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Havetoist
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:01 pm Post subject: Courtesans/Ladies of noble birth... |
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Historically these women were very public characters and much sought after. Mind you, they had manners and would never approach a wife, or fiance to enlighten them. And only a cad would sit her at his table if his wife were attending. Not to say there weren't a few cads out there who completly chucked their wife for a wife taken with the left hand (as an offical mistress was often called. And some of these relationships lasted lifetimes. King Edward the VII's favourite was brought to his deathbed by his wife Queen Alexandra.).
In many cultures a courtesan was among other things, a skilled musician, singer, dancer. Highly educated and much sought after. Think geisha
Emotionally one did not fall in love with a courtesan....but held her as a mark of wealth, and privlege. Of course, being human, someone would get jealous and there would be a split...however; as long as the 'contact' held she remained exclusive.
There are some wonderful books out there...and I have a few (at home otherwise I would give title and author)....that discuss just this very thing.
As far as pregnancy, and having children....that would be entirely up to you and what you wanted. I used a 'bastard' in my story....he was overlooked due to two legit brothers, but when they died his father 'raised' him...'not done, but not illegal'. In English society, that could NEVER happen. A family would die out before a bastard would inherit. |
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Amlee
Joined: 05 Jul 2004
Posts: 370
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| In many cases in history the Courtesans were very powerful and had a women's power over the king and lords. Many deaths have been recorded as being the product of a Courtesan. |
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