[inglor]

I've tried to edit the banter and get to the meat of the posts of that most popular thread. Hope it is not too confusing. I also hope this post proves to be useful.
I'd like to thank those who took the time to post on that thread and share thier opinions and observations. Both on writing and thier perspectives. I know I learned alot about both.

Oh, and you bunch are freaks

Inglor


Sindohte:
In honor of GLT who was my writing buddy and a writer who definitely knew how to put the oomph into a story, I decided to start this thread.

There are a few writers out there, especially those who are part of the Village, who are now finding themselves at the point where they are sitting down at their computers to write a sex scene for the first time. So whether you have currently written about the beast with two backs or if you are a reader who enjoys sensual reading, what words of advice do you have to offer?

My main piece of advice is - anticipation. Let things slowly build between two (or more) characters, so that the sexual tension takes on a palpable presence. Although a quick shag is fun and all that, drawing out the sexual tension makes for more thrilling reading imho.

BB:
Hmm... I am by no means a good smut writer, but what 'works' for me is imaging (in great detail --- this is the fun and potentially distracting part) your scene. Think about every action that will take place, and give it an air of sensuality, even if it is as simple as slipping the corner of a tunic off your shoulder. You don't need to describe EVERY movement at EVERY point, but attention to detail is imparitive when writing. It is the difference between this:

'The gown fell off her shoulders and pooled onto the floor.'

And this:

'The silken garmet slid down her curves, caressing her pale skin with its sensual touch and falling to the ground without a sound.'

Also, smut writers seem to think that people who read smut are stupid and don't know what REALLY occurs. Therefore, they feel the need to use the same words over and over again. Make it colorful, describe what happens but don't really describe it. Infer rather than come out and say it. It adds an air of mystery and 'fluff' if you will that is a lot more entertaining!

More shall be posted on this subject at a later date... For now, I am going to go write smut

Scribe:
Its possible to be raunchy and tasteful at the same time. I often find writing about emotions as well as the physical mechanics of it the easiest. I also switch from perspective to perspective which perhaps gives the scene a bit more scope instead of making a one sided affair.

While clinical language is not recommended, excessive flowery language will also make the scene look ridiculous. And I don't know why having the male appendage described as 'elf hood', just make me laugh. I tend to use manhood to indicate masculinity, not race. Uh, can't think of anything else....anyone else? Do? Want to chime in on this one?

[color=darkred]Roisin[/color]
I have a real problem figuring out what to call the genitalia. I don't really like the "euphemisms" you get in romance novels, but if it's too clinical it's just very flat. So to speak

Sind:
You bring up a good point BB, sensual writing should make use of the five senses - touch, taste, smell, vision, and hearing. Hmm, let me see if I can use all of the senses in a single paragraph.

He stood behind her and watched as she removed the pins from her hair. Stepping closer he wrapped his arms around her waist and inhaled the delicate scent of the lavender water she always used. She turned to face him and he laughed softly at the memory of how they had hurried upstairs without saying good night to their guests. As he kissed her, the mulled wine she had sipped druing dinner made her kisses all the sweeter.

I know that the above example is a little bit artifical since I forced myself to use all of the senses in such a short amount of space, but I always try to use between 2 to 3 of the senses whenever I write a love scene in order to make it more three dimensional

[u]Miriel361[/u]
My thoughts on the matter: I find it very difficult to write sex scenes. I have to be in the mood for it (read that anyway you want Sindohte)

The more sex scenes I write, the harder it gets because I hate repetition and writing the same thing over and over. Or at least using the same words over and over.

So then I try to write it differently and then it doesn't always work.

Hence, I have started to spin out the point at which my characters have sex and work up the tension. (except in a PWP).

Still even in a PWP, pacing is the most important thing in sex scenes. Don't rush it (unless it is a quickie)

My best sex scene (in my humble opinion) was in a different genre. It followed a theme of travelling to a foreign city and requiring a travel guide.

Sex isn't always perfect. And it isn't always earthmoving. Sometimes it is the imperfections that makes the scene.

Sometimes less is more.

KhazarKhum:
Sometimes the less you see, the more erotic it is. Imagination is the greatest asset the reader has; and letting them use that imagination will make a scene far more thrilling and exciting than simply describing the mechanical motions of copulation.

Dolarabee:
Err, I think the subject is in good hands. No real need for my pseudo savoir-faire. What do I know anyway? Hehehe. I guess it's all in the mood - of the scene but also of the characters involved. If it's a quickie, I think the writing should reflect that, and not just in the delivery and actions, but I mean the choice of words. Same goes if it's a romantic setting with really loving sex romp. It could also be riddled with angst or be a total funny/playful coupling, and yet again, the wording in the narrative would take on a whole different colour for me. Does this make any sense?

As Scribe pointed out, a switch in POVs can help or at least, if you don't switch within the same story, try switching for the next. You know, from her point of view, from his, from a bystander or a jealous suitor in the next room who can hear everything, from the servants, or there's always the omniscient POV too. This might help to make the stories a little different from the one before or the next to follow.

And yes, genitalia and breasts can get hard to call after a while. There's only so many times you can refer to her bundle of nerves or nubin and his length or throbbing erection

Sind
Scribe and Do both mentioned the issue of perspective in a love scene. That raises some more questions for me -

1. As a female writer (since that is the gender of most of us here) is it more difficult to write from the male perspective, about the same level of difficulty as writing from the female perspective, or easier?

2. Would you choose to write from a particular perspective to convey a certain mood? In a discussion that I read recently someplace that I now forget, Viv talked about how her word choice differed when she was writing from the guy's perspective and how from the female perspective, she used more flowery sorts of terms.


Personally I don't find it any harder to write from the male vs. the female perspective. I think the reason for that is that I write with the intent that in the end, it is about satisfying the female character while the male character takes pleasure in knowing that he has pleased the female character.

I think the gender of the author can have a major impact upon the tone or ultimate goal of a love scene. I have read stories written by male authors where it is clear that the only purpose of the woman is to satisfy the man's needs. Even if these stories are technically well written they strike me as being for the most part hollow, because there is not that connection between the shared elements of the sexual experience.

Sex can be thought of like baseball. It is a team sport where you need complementary players working together like a catcher and a pitcher. A catcher by himself has no balls to catch While a pitcher without a catcher is just aiming his balls at nothing

Another thought to share - men are visual creatures, so I try to be very conscious about having male characters enjoying the sight of the female character be an important part of a scene. Even though I may skew things in that direction, paying attention to other aspects of the experience is still important
So let's talk about verbal foreplay - the art of seducing with words. I think sexual banter in a story can be better than a hand job. Agree or disagree?

Inglor:
Just what the doctor ordered, This is answering some questions I had.
We (males) are VERY VISUAL (hence the huge # of porn with neked women).
So lots of visual description of stuff is great.

My experience is that I have to write and then read it then add more to it, write-read, write-read, building a scene a little at a time, like building a wall with bricks, you don't throw them all up at once. Each brick has its own place and order, and must be checked that it fits properly and is aligned. And then you have to step back and check your each course to see if it is straight and level, otherwise you can build a wall, or scene in this metaphor, that just doesn't hold up and leaves the reader dissatisfied. While a well thought out and carerfully constructed scene can leave a reader flushed, breathless and looking hungrily about the house for thier significant other (or nearest cylindrical object)

To me, sex scenes are the hardest and most time consuming to get right, when they are bad they are annoying, but when they are done right, they are remembered.

Writing sex is like the act itself, done correctly, it can make up for shortcomings in the relationship or story, put if done poorly, can reduce the joy in a good relationship and make a great story just ok.

As a male reader/writer I have a tendency to be more visceral, especially when there is a long build up to the actual business. BUT, I think men (at least me and my friends), more so than women, REALLY get off when their partner is enjoying the situation. When you can sit back and your partner's eyes cross, toes curl and shout things that they would be embarrassed about is better than anything. Knowing that you did that to to them is more satisfying than having it done to you. Sometimes it's an ego thing, sometimes it's a caring thing, but it is still a much more gratifying experience when you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that your partner is completely (underline, boldface, italics, !!!!) satisfied.

For instance, Oral Sex: in my experience and conversations, most women don't enjoy giving it as much men do, and enjoy recieving it more than men do

More from the male perspective as it comes to me (ew, sorry about the pun)
In my, as yet small smut writing experience (I SAID DOWN) Something I have noticed about taking time to write good smut, you have to leave it a while and let it rest. When you go back to it, you see things that you didn't see before and new ideas pop up (*reaches for rolled up paper again*).

Miriel:
The thing about a blow job is that women can play an active rather than passive role. She is in command so to speak. That is an aphrodisiac in itself. I personally ( little ones close your ears and eyes) like the male smell - it turns me on almost as much as an accent.

BB:
Yes, I definately appriciate visuals. I was always very forthright in what I wanted from a guy in relationship from the time I was in highschool. By the time I got into the Marines, a guy would ask me out on a date and if he wasn't gorgeous I'd say 'Sorry, you dont meet my standards. But if you can stand on one hand and hop up and down for 6 hours I might consiter it.

If it WAS an attractive man, I'd come back with: 'You know this will be a one-night stand right? There are too many of you buggers out there and I plan on getting through a good heap of them before I have to settle down!'

The alternate to that was. "As long as you remember this is all about the sex."

Now that I've sufficiantly proved what a complete slut/b1tch I WAS (Mora, shush... you too Sind) Point is -- yes, as a whole, men are much more visual. But Sind and I are the exceptions I guess.

Inglor:
So i can write better for the female perspective, what do you (Sindhote and BB and every other female who reads this) find most visually stimulating? Pecs, abs, butt, eyes,...elfhood (), what is it about the seeing male form that gets you all bothered?

Just to be fair, I will share my views on the female body: the whole frickin thing!!
Besides the obvious boobs and genitalia .You really have the advantage there, your stuff is all compact and hidden and smooth andalsdkhnaf[p089gvaq4okgaadf;l
.
.
.
Sorry, got a little carried away there. Any way where was I, oh yeah, Genitalia. Our stuff is ugly and wrinkly and hard to describe as pretty, for instance, our equipment is often desrcribed as throbbing or rigid or any other adjective revolving around "hard" while your stuff is always described as variations of "soft"


Sorry for the ramble, been a while...

Butts... Butts and legs. A well formed butt and nice legs, especially calves are my cocaine/heroin/*insert addictive drug here*. Tummies are some men's thing, not a six pack though, just nice and healthy. Bony is another turnoff. Enhancements too, especially if out of proportion. Big boobs are cool and all but there is a point of diminishing returns...Yes, there is such a thing as "her boobs are too big".

It's really all about health and proportion.
A well toned woman, not muscled, but tone, with a proportional features is (to me anyway) the most beautiful thing God ever created and is proof to me that he is male.
My attention ALWAYS would (and did when I was single)go to the uninhanced women who exercise but aren't afraid of french fries.
And I think most men would agree with me. Big boobs have great shock value and really catch your eye, but the woman with the right curves in the right places is has the world at her feet.

Writing smut is usually no problem, writing good smut that you want someone else to read, understand and be affected by, (you know the ones you read over and over, have bookmarked and highlighted) is what is hard and takes patience.

BBPersonally, I am a torso-woman (Arms specifically) I like nice, long, lean (not bulky) more wirey... *rambles* arms. Bulky to me is a HUGE turnoff, I like the slimmer, toned guys. Bulky guys would probably crush the poor little BB!

Hair is another one (I dont mean body-hair, I mean as on your head) I like curls, but NOT really tight ones, just wavy, silky hair... *more rambling*

Hands is along turn on -- You can tell if a man takes care of himself by looking at his hands. No short thumbs please!

Nobody laugh -- I prefer tall men. I stand 5 feet tall, but I still enjoy men who are 6 foot or taller. Don't know why, its just a 'BB thing'

Other than that... sorry, but men's butts dont do a thing for me unless they are clothed. There is nothing funnier than a nekid man-butt. Legs, not so much. Abs to a certain extend, but I dont need a six pack to make me happy!

Sind:
A pair of well muscled thighs makes me all warm and mushy in certain special places I once had a boyfriend who ran track and played basketball, so I am definitely a sucker for well defined legs. The back of a man's calves are also very sexy. That is why I enjoy summer so much - ahhh, the sight of well toned calf muscles. Not that I don't appreciate the rest of the male body, but I love legs.

Artanisoflorien:

For what it's worth, here's my two cents... If we're talking visual stimulous only here, I'd have to say arms are what I notice first...well defined ones, especially in the triceps area. That would be followed closely by chest. Again, not all muscle-bound or anything, just well-toned and defined. I think it's some sort of primitive attraction to outward signs of strength

Iliistine:
As a sorta well naive smut writer who can't seem to find more than 3 words to describe that "feeling", I am reading this post with the hope I will have more luck, but I have seen that we are talking about men and in (Ibit theBB)- Dan and Inglor's case women's anatomy I must well opine!

I will melt into a pile of lustful goo when hubby comes home after work, and his chest, shoulders and biceps are all puffed up from his working out. Oh goodness, I want to touch those places and feel them uh, best stop before I get all warm and blushing!

Sind
So let's talk about verbal foreplay - the art of seducing with words. I think sexual banter in a story can be better than a hand job. Agree or disagree?
Now back to our intelligent discussion. The skillful use of verbal banter can heighten and sustain sexual tension. This writing technique is especially useful in a longer story because you can't have the male and female characters shagging each other on every other page. However, you can most definitely have lots of delicious smutty talk

Maram68:
Since I am enjoying this thread so much, and I am as a writer quite smut-challenged, here my 2-cents worth (which doesn't include any reference to gorgeous naked bodies, be it male or female).

I just love a smut scene that doesn't have to be graphic but that gets your imagination so far in the mood that you can see ans empathize with the situation described, both physical and emotional.

Not many writers achieve that for me, in fact very very few.

Sind:

That speaks to great characterization, when a character is so carefully crafted that they seem three-dimensional. And if you are able to believe that, the sex scene does not have to be that explicit because your mind will fill in the blanks. Which is why I have become such an Annatar groupie There is just something about a big, sexy boneless man in a red robe that turns me on

Miriel:
Obviously I am in the wrong time zone. I missed all the fun bits.

My two cents on the visual: eyes and smile. Dunno what it is, there must be something about certain combinations which make me go click.

Oh and I like wide shoulders (to cry on) and good, well developed thighs.

Back to writing smut.

I have written OB smut. Until I met (saw) him and then I couldn't write any further. I prefer not to know the people I am writing about - hence my obsession with elves. Not likely to ever run into one of those.

Viv once said in relation to something else, that you should always think of the hands. What are they doing? Well the same goes for sex. Where are the hands and what are they doing?

The other important thing is: Is it possible? Now there are quite possibly a hundred different positions for sexual intercourse, but would your characters be able to do them all? Think of height differences for instance, muscle power, endurance, race.

I always feel sorry for the poor human woman after a long night of sex with an elf. I think, gee that woman must be really sore and there's a good chance that she is going to come down with cystitis - which must have really been unpleasant in those days without appropriate medicine.

Thuriniel
I have been following this post along for the past days and it's been great fun and very informative!

So ... my two cents worth. Writing smut for me is incredibly hard. Give me a battle scene, give me sappy romance, but I find smut very difficult ... which must mean that I'm some sort of a masochist since my fic is full of it!

When it comes to writing smut, I like it to be detailed but sensual at the same time. I also try to have a very good visual in my head of the scene (will even resort to drawing if I have to -- and no, don't ask to see the sketches!) in order to keep track of all body parts (I admire those of you who write threesomes!).

In my fic I try to avoid the more so-called "vulgar" names for private parts in favor of euphemisims (I'm pretty sure, however, I've never used elfhood!), but that doesn't mean that those words bother me in another type of setting (i.e. Orli fics).

Miriel mentioned that it is hard to not repeat yourself when you have tons of smut in your fic, and I believe that she is right. I too try to avoid repetition and as I'm tackling right now the next to the last chapter of my fic which is supposed to be quite smutty, I'm wracking my brains trying to come up with something creative. I like Dolarabee's thoughts about changing perspectives. I have written most of my smut from the female point of view ... maybe it's time to give the male a chance -- which brings me to thanking Inglor and Dan for all of their input ... although I have a male at my disposition 24/7 is nice to know that there are others out there who ...

Inglor
Sexual Banter:
I agree, especially in long stories. Also, tension can be built by light touches, standing a little closer, long looks, posture. Small intimate gestures especially in public. References to smell really pulls in a reader. Using common pleasant aromas can really stimulate the imagination.
A little more on the visual:
1. a man can admire at an attractive woman all day. I've had several days wrecked by seeing a beautiful woman, and no, not naked, they were in a grocery store or in a car or what ever, weren't doing anything sexy either. Visuals stay in our mind for a long time.
2. I love just watching (without her knowledge) my wife sleep or move about the house or whatever and find it brings out a wealth of emotions, not just sexual
If we are trying to be realistic when writing smut, just how much of the cramping, laying on hair, embarrasing noises or other unpleasantness that sometimes happens do you put into your scene. Nothing like a good toe cramp to steal an orgasm.
Would putting some of that stuff in help or detract from a good scene? Would it increase the realism but detract from the mood. It may be a good vehicle for a funny situation though. Thoughts?

BB
You make an excellent point in reference to realism. Personally, I don't think putting any of that in your fic is wanted/appropriote. I say that smut is fantasy, how many of your fantasies include those 'unpleasant' happenings? People get enough 'realism' in real life, why would you read something that you can get just as easily by tackling your spouse?

Miriel
Realistic sex: Well I had a lot of fun writing a parody of sex in "The Last Unicorn Home." Believe me, anything that could have gone wrong did and no-one had much fun at all except for the reader I hope.

Secondly: eroticism, some of the most erotic things I ever read had very little to do with sex at all. One that stayed in my mind for ages was in a book whose title I cannot remember (it was years ago). The male figure stood behind the female one. She lifted her hair and he put on the necklace. His fingers barely touched her neck. Then he leant forward and his breath was warm on that sensive zone of skin behind the ear. That's all there was, but it was so beautifully described that I often went back and read it again.

[color=red]Inglor:[/color]
Size?
How do you write it, big, huge, just right?
Or do you make a reference to it at all?

Since OSA will be my primary audience and there are primarily women here, what do you like to read/write?

Sind
Like BB said - smut is largely about fantasy, so realism should not darken the doorstep. However with that said, I do like realism in terms of describing the minor aches and muscle pains after the fact. Like Miriel said earlier, if a human female is the lucky receiver of a male Elf's attention, she is going to be feeling it in the morning Not that this is necessarily a bad thing, but the lady in question sure is not going to be hopping and skipping all over the place. Instead she would probably be making an emergency appointment to see a chiropractor to have her spine placed back in alignment.

Penis size - it should be big enough to be impressive, but not so small that one would mistake it for a cocktail weinie.

One mistake that I have seen male writers make that I cannot stand is when they give precise measurements such as - "She was a busty redhead with a curvy figure that was 38-24-38." While that is bad enough, I truly cannot stand precise measurements of the male member - "His manhood was an impressive 10 inches of rock hard flesh and it measured 4 inches around when fully erect."

I am a firm believer in fudging the details of sexual equipment. Certainly there is nothing wrong with having a specific measurement in your head as to how big or small a certain body part should be, but keep the yardstick at home in the closet please.

So as for the exact size that I enjoy reading about, it should be slightly more than enough to take care of the job at hand

BB
Sind -- I totally agree with you on that point. I don't generally make references at all. Of course you can use words like 'long' but that can be interpreted many different ways! I just dont think its important if you have a good piece of smut, much like it doesnt matter in real life as long as the guy knows what hes doing! (Not that it isnt a bonus)

Another part to that is 'looking' at the male sex does nothing for me. Its just not that pretty! Therefore, I don't need a mental image. Its one of those things that should be 'felt and not seen.

Andreth:
Visual stimulation - As the owner of a well-stocked, but carefully-chosen, porn library I can say that there are women who are visually stimulated. Of course, I've been told I'm an anomaly because I'm the typical female who grew up in a household of all males and had little or no female influence. So my husband tells me I am like a guy with breasts and a vagina, which he claims is a very good thing for him.

Semper Fi - BB, you goof, that's marine talk. Semper Fidelis, always faithful. Inglor was speaking Jarhead-ese to you. And since I like you so much, I will forgo the customary teasing on the IQ of Marines - and believe me, that's a big sacrifice from the daughter of a Flying Tiger, the sister of an Army drill sargeant, and the wife of an ex-Navy ASF squid.

What's Pleasing in a Smut Scene - Okay, I have to revert back to feminine tendencies here and say that even in writing sex, foreplay is a big bonus. Setting up the scene with sexual tension and anticipation makes it tremendously enjoyable, in my book. The set up is as important as the act itself. Of course, learning to write scenes like that is a whole different story....

Do Elves scratch themselves? - Well the good professor tells us that Elves and Mortals are biologically alike and to quote one of my favorite movies - "All balls itch. It's a fact."

Does Size Matter? - Yes, it does. Anyone who tells you otherwise is basically saying that you have a small penis. I used to say that to my ex-husband a lot. Although in a sex scene I think you should just write the penis as average size or not mention it at all unless it's for a specific plot purpose or you're using it to bring a little realism to the scene. Then size would matter.

Realism in sex - I like to see a little realism interjected in sex scenes. Not so much that it's distracting, but enough that you can nod and say 'yeah, I can relate to that'. It gets kind of old when everybody makes love with their bodies bathed in the moonlight while breathing in the perfumed evening air and 'greedily drinking' seminal or vaginal juices that taste like wine. Mora and I discussed this once - that it's more amusing than sexy when people talk about how magically delicious semen is. Anybody who's ever swallowed knows what a load that is. Um...uh...not to say that *I* know, exactly...I had a friend tell me once...yeah, that's it, a friend. Now what was the next subject?

What do I personally find attractive in men? - Sturdy build is what I find especially appealing. The whole 'Me Tarzan, You Jane' image. Not like unnatural-bulging-popping-bodybuilder big, but nice broad shoulders and nice muscular chest and arms. And a nice ass doesn't hurt either

Inglor:
I am in the process of writing a scene and I have the female being more excited (she's already neked, in the bed and waiting) when she sees his impressive size. Is this a realistic reaction?
My only experience with this situation is what I've seen in pornos. So you can imagine my impression is somewhat skewed

BB
The Magic Semen! I always laugh when I read something like that. That is unnatually unrealistic, thats way beyond fantasy! Yes, semen tastes bad, it just does. I had my hubby try the fruit-method but it doesnt help all that much. Still, doesn't 'ruin' sex or anything and Anna there is nothing wrong with swallowing, its much more convient

Miriel:
In the days when before I was married - i.e. Once upon a time a long time ago.....If I went a while without sex, I was always surprised at the size of an erect penis. So, yes Ingolf - this is a realistic reaction from your nekkid and willing lass.

Besides, it never hurts to build up a blokes confidence and mumble appropriate comments on size.

And its girth not length that matters. Apparently we females only have 7cm of nerves in the vagina so all the rest is wasted. Whereas width never goes astray...

Andreth
Inglor, a random thought on your sex scene - since on this site you're obviously writing more to women than to men, maybe your target audience would be more appreciative of the 'feel' of his impressive length rather than the 'sight' of it. 'Cause, not to be crass, but I think most women would notice a man's penile girth either when they got their hand around it or when they got up close and personal with it as opposed to when they saw it. If that makes any sense at all.

Dan:
m/m sex simply much different from sex with a woman. with a woman, you have to be concerned about hurting her -- and in my wife's case, crushing her. Personally I want to kick myself when I see I've left a mark on my wife. with guys, you arent bothered and you can be rough and its alright.

as far as the realism of same-sex couplings, it is certainly glorified a lot more than it probably should be. there will never be a time when you're with a guy for the first time and it wont hurt, it just doesnt happen. If its someone you've been involved with a long time, it can be virtually painless. but I will tell you one thing, they don't overexaturate with reactions from prostate stimuli.

for the most part, slash fics are a lot 'nicer' than the real thing, but they aren't so far off that its not fun to read


m/m sex simply much different from sex with a woman. with a woman, you have to be concerned about hurting her -- and in my wife's case, crushing her. Personally I want to kick myself when I see I've left a mark on my wife. with guys, you arent bothered and you can be rough and its alright.

as far as the realism of same-sex couplings, it is certainly glorified a lot more than it probably should be. there will never be a time when you're with a guy for the first time and it wont hurt, it just doesnt happen. If its someone you've been involved with a long time, it can be virtually painless. but I will tell you one thing, they don't overexaturate with reactions from prostate stimuli.

for the most part, slash fics are a lot 'nicer' than the real thing, but they aren't so far off that its not fun to read


Sind:
That LJ post made a good point about being aware of the influence culture and other factors in terms of sexual practices. Now that raises yet another question for me - Would Elves be considered more "advanced" in terms of their sexual practices? So for example would a male Elf be more likely to perform oral sex, while a man from Gondor would be like, "You want me to put my mouth where

Maram:
I tend to think of elves as actually being far superior in the art of love and erotism. Yes I agree, though I am sure there must be some great nummenorean lovers with ancient skills out there (ANY ARAGORN MUSE, VIVCHEN?)

Probably what elves bring in skill and stamina men make up in passion and lust ...

Dolorabee:
Was just talking about this with a fellow member a few days ago, who came back drooling from Troy (hope she won't mind me quoting us here):

> A girlfriend who's seen it said *she* nearly passed
> out looking at Brad's pelvic muscles... or whatever
> they're called - the bit around boys' hip/abdomen area
> that is so yummily different from girls anyway

That's my favourite spot too... after cupping and fondling the roundness of a sweet, toned ass. You know, I like to rest my head there. That hip/abdomen area. (wish it had a proper name) It's a handy spot. On top of being damn sexy, you're close to Junior, you're in a ticklish zone.. also one where you can easily arouse him (and yourself), the soft hair and his smell so close... you've got the abs... the thighs... his balls.. all within easy reach... <le sigh>

-

:: clears throat :: So, yeah, I'm an ass woman (in a rundown pair of Levi's jeans) though the eyes and thighs can get to me a lot as well - used to follow tennis championships just for that. Like many have said, I also like tall men. Like a foot plus on me.

What else? Reality? I don't mind it. Again, for me it comes with the mood of the fic/characters. And as Inglor mentioned, a cramp or hair pull can really make for a funny fic. This whole fic should be only fantasy, I don't agree with. I mean, it depends. Sometimes I'll go for it, and a other times I'll like realism to be injected in it. Too perfect a scene or a love session and I can't associate myself with it.

Size? Semen taste? Well, as it's been said (was it Andreth?), size does matter. And from my personal experience, not just girth. When it bottoms out, there's something you can feel, believe me. Oh, and for me the sight of it, and most likely because it can't be touched yet, would be a big turn on. I'm thinking about your scene here, Inglor. Would make the lady's mouth water, IMHO, and her hands reach out for a feel.

Lapping hungrily at his sweet essence? I don't think so. Don't get me wrong, I can get as ravenous as the next gal and my partner's smell and taste will drive me wild. As Inglor mentioned, a big part of enjoying sex is to know you're driving your partner mad with desire and pleasure, so I think that as a rule women do it to please their man, because they know/think it really makes their day, but surely not out of need for the taste... (maybe I should have Rob try this pineapple/banana/nutmeg business)

And while we're on this, Inglor has been asking the female members direct questions, so let me ask the boys this, does the swallowing really count? I mean after being given good head, coming into her mouth, what's the difference if the lady swallows or kind of spits it out? Or is it seen like a rejection?

Okay, I'm sure there's many other things that were brought up but I've lost track... but for some reason the anal question remains. Go figure. So what was it, Inglor? Do women find the thought of anal sex arousing or do they enjoy the deed? Can't really say if all women like it, but I do. There's this little extra to it. Can't explain. Wouldn't trade one for the other forever, but they certainly complement each other. I find that the partner gets extra aroused when he realises there's a possibility it might happen. Yep. Harder, bigger. Not a side-effect to ignore... so that leads me to ask if it's a common thing... do men find anal sex all the more exciting? And why? Tighter, hotter? Somehow forbidden? And should wives try to please their (heterosexual) hubbies with some anal play on them? Inglor, you say that the whole thing with the prostate isn't an exaggeration so would you recommend some experimentation?

Oh, and for the record (was it Dan?), I like it when my man stops being careful with me. I'm not saying always, but that difference that was mentioned about having to be careful not to hurt the woman but could let go totally with a man, well, I sometimes like it when my man totally loses it. I can take it, I'm not made of glass. And to know I can drive him totally out of control is the biggest turn on. Alright, this must be a record for the Too Much Information angle.

Anyhow, I can say this is a very interesting thread and thanks to everyone for giving insights and opinions and preferences and thoughts. This is great - even more so by having the female/male/het/bi and homosexual angles brought forward.

Vulgarweed:
Prostate definitely not overrated, in my experience. Oh no. Quite underrated, in fact. Really kind of amazing what it can do. (Not that I have one. But most of my partners have. Mwahahah.)

[Fanfic pet peeve - "prostrate." By the Valar, no! And spell-check won't catch it, either.)

Anal sex
I find a lot of het smut to be...shall I say..[deep breath for this unwieldy phrase].penis-vagina intercourse-centric in a way that starts to wear on me, though I guess I'm guilty of it too (and it's been laziness on my part). There should be more oral (69, anyone?), handjobs, anal sex, frottage, miscellaneous. Think about it -- what if traditional herbal birth control's unreliable/unavailable/requires lots of planning in advance? What if the lady wishes to keep her "maidenhead" for whatever reason? Ancient, traditional reasons to opt out of "that"--and it's absolutely equally ancient and traditional to maneuver around it with the "everything but", which is often treated as a poor substitute for that one act when that's NOT necessarily the case at all!

Here's something I want to ask about: What do y'all think of threesomes (and moresomes), and sexual relationships involving more than two people? [/i]

Sind:
Ahhh, frottage as a sexual technique. How wonderful that is. Nothing like doing everything but sticking it in and going to town. The sense of fear/hope/wonder that somebody is going to forget their good intentions and just decide to say screw it and have sex. All near sexual techniques require more self-control imho, because you have to be able to say no in spite of seeing the whole candy store laid out in front of you.

Now that I think of it, I don't think that I have read of any het 69ing in fanfic. I know that I have definitely encountered it in slash fic and even in a few of the femslash fic that I have read. But as for male-female 69ing, not a darn thing. Writers definitely need to think outside of the box
Vulgarweed, you raised a good question about threesomes, which raises a question of mine own - Are you talking about a male-male-female combo or female-female-male combo? My reading preference, only because there is a lack of the other kind out there, is MMF. I like that the female tends to be the center of attention, which is always a good thing in my womanly opinion. It would be nice to have things changed up a little bit and throw some guy on guy action into the mix, but I haven't read that before. Probably because the typical tag team partners are the Twinkies. And as much as I love reading Twinkie tag team fics, I am dead set again family members exchanging DNA.

Now that I have thought about it a little bit, I take back what I said about not reading MFF fic. I have read porn written by male writers featuring that combo and I found it to be tiresome because it was always about the guy getting off on his power trip of having two sexy girls cranking his gearshaft. Not that I am bashing what is one of the favorite male fantasies, but from a girl's perspective it leaves me feeling like women are tools vs. active participants. I think that things might be slightly different if the one guy-two girl combo was written by a female Damn it, my evil plot elephant just knocked down the side of my house.

Oh and before I forget, I think it was Do that mentioned that sweet spot on a man's body, the area between the hipbone and heaven is what I call it What a most splendid area it is indeed Just right for licking and biting. I truly had to control myself when I saw Brad Pitt's sweet spot in Troy when he was standing there in the nude talking to Briseis before he wrapped that black cloth around his hips.

Okay now that I have reduced myself into a pile of steaming goo, let me focus on the subject of writing for a minute. While writing a sex scene featuring 3 people is hard enough given all of the body parts and potential povs to write from, it has to be at least 10 times more difficult to write a complete story vs. a PWP featuring multiple lovers/potential or actual love interests. This is now making me wonder WTF I was thinking when I dreamed up my current story featuring one woman and three lovers.

What I have found so far is that I have been able to clearly identify the "voices" of 2 of the male characters, but the 3rd male is taking a bit longer to develop. It has been an interesting challenge to try and develop characters that are similar enough in some aspects to attract the same woman, yet still different enough in other ways to keep her going back and forth between all 3 of them.

The only author I have found who has been able to successfully write about a heroine juggling multiple guys romantically is Laurell K. Hamilton in both her Anita Blake Vampire Hunter and Meredith Gentry series of books. Certainly I have my own particular pick as to who should be the first pick (any Jean-Claude and Doyle fans out there?), but it is fascinating to see the process unfold.

Ningloreth:

I'm quite new to fiction writing, but I thought I'd add a few comments from my limited experience.

• I started writing in reaction to slash, so my stories more or less had to be NC-17 from the start, but it's taken me some time to relax into writing smut.
• As I've said elsewhere, I chose a couple (Legolas & Eowyn) who, like a slash couple, had the potential to shift (metaphorically) from male-female to female-male to male-male to female-female quite easily. This helps with the variety buiness.
• Almost accidentally, I started with a story in which sex was integral to the plot (the Harvest Rite... And I've tried to keep that going in subsequent stories. This provides me with certain 'guidelines' when I come to write the sex scenes - it tends to determine who does what to whom & where, which also helps me with the variety business, though I agree that a certain amount of repetition is hard to avoid.
• 'elfhood' cracks me up too. Vocabulary is a big problem. I've used 'balls' & 'ballocks', and 'member'... but I've avoided 'cock', even though it is genuinely mediaeval. I use 'penis' in descriptions, because I happen to think it sounds quite sexy! 'Clitoris' is completely unacceptable. For my next story I've been pouring over an elvish dictionary, trying to come up with a set of suitable euphemisms for the elves to use between themselves.
• Personally, I find male equipment very visually stimulating and I like to imagine Legolas well-endowed... but I try to let Eowyn make all the comments about size. It's up to her if she wants to flatter him.
• Eowyn's a Shieldmaiden and likes to get down to business as quickly as possible. This means I don't have to worry too much about foreplay - all that stuff with nipples makes me laugh.
• On the whole, I try to keep sex short and sweet-and sometimes it seems better to have it happen 'off camera'.
Just a few observations...

Inglor:

on to the this male's perspective on:

Anal sex: naughty factor definitely. tighness is nice but the forbidden/ naughty is the REAL spice

Prostate/anus play: I came so hard, I passed out


Swallowing: one more time... lets me know she's not grossed out, Spitting is just not as sexy. here again, naughty factor kicks in.

Ejaculation on boobs: Kinda naughty, and sexy
Back: only b/c I have too,
Face: Only if she asks, I think it is demeaning, like when a dog pisses on another dog, it's not an accident, it's a show of dominance.
I like inside.

Analingus: receiving it almost as good as giving it. naughty factor not as much, just feels DAMN good

Key to anal sex is preparation though, I can't relax if I think I or she is isn't clean, this also makes co-showering much more fun, nice way to build anticipation if you pay particular attention to the back door without saying anything, feels good and hints at what you or your partner's intentions might be. When I feel my wife spending more time with the soap back there, I know I'm in for a treat.



I too need help with elven sex and genetalia euphemisms.

I have found myself using "him" or "her" when refering to genetalia and it helps the scene flow especially if it is his or hers perspective, respectivley.( sorry about the"ives" and "ises")

Dan and Inglor:
Like watching women masturbate
Both like anal play though Inglor and Dan probably have different views…
Prostate stimulation good
Ejaculation inside good
Swallowing good
Ejaculation on face bad
Ejaculation on body shrug

Una
on her soapbox:
Thank you for this very joyful and educational ride on writing smut
I for one can write smut anywhere, anytime. Though I have to admit I don't think about a smut scene overly much beforehand. When the plot line asks for one, I write it, if not, I don't. Writing a smut scene is almost clinical for me ... before my mind's eye the whole scene rolls off like a movie scene and I just transcribe it down into my PC. Most of the time I don't even have to fluff it up which is a blessing.
Any advice I could give is ... stay honest and true ... too many kama sutra like positions in just one scene look ridiculous, and if you do not have much experience in sex personally, I'd rather advice not to go into depth with the smut. It almost always shows - most sex scenes described in some fics resemble more the entries of the Guiness Book of ridiculous and almost unnatural and painful sex positions than actual sex. In my experience as fanfic archivist I have come across only one or two authors who could pull it off without having any or very limited real life experience.
If you feel awkward reading or writing smut, write a PG13 version. Nothing wrong with it

As for all the other things discussed here, I really enjoyed the male perspective, and yes most men I have encountered in my life didn't like the *cum shot on face* but prefered either breasts or tummy and of course inside any open orifices a female body can provide.

The first thing I notice/find sexy in a male are the arms and hands ... I just love a well-toned arm with the sinews showing ... I don't know why but that little quirk has provided me with some enjoyable hours in the past. h and butts ... l just love firm butts on a male ...and of course these little shallows/curves on the sides, below the hips. Very, very sexy That was the first thing I noticed on hubby when I got him out of his pants the first time ... and I knew this will either be a hot one-night stand or the beginning of a life-time relationship. Luckily it was the latter

I have done a lot during my wild days, trying to experience at least everything once as I thought that when I settle down all this would just evaporate into thin air. Even though some of the wild things are over, I noticed that the depth and intensity has built up. It's like there is more. It can be tender, insane, hot, sexy, or kinky but there is always the feeling of more and not getting enough in a positive way. It put in my personal experience a new meaning to the word NEED.
I have been quite promiscuous until I met my husband six years ago, and I had no qualms to bed both male and female, or had a three- or more some when the occasion arose. It was part of my life and gave me a lot of pleasure. This kind of lifestyle can be good for some (like me) and destructive to others, but in the end it all trickles down to experience and what you can do with it (like writing smut).
I think there is just one rule in writing smut as well as leading a fulfilled sex life, Just whatever you do, try to keep your dignity and stay within the moral boundaries (no kids, animals) and anything is possible.


Sorry about the coding...