Reviews for "The Circles: Book One: The Triumph of The Shadow"

Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:04 am

Well, Xyzzy, I don't like to discuss my fic on someone else's place, but here we go:

That's why they have nannies. You think WK gets his hands dirty??? Heck No! That's what nannies are for. Oh, and just where, pray tell, were the diapers??? I don't recall writing any of that into it!! Very Happy smiley face

And they aren't "baby Nazguls". They are humans, like their parents. And like most of the old Royal line of Numenor, they are "gifted" .

Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:30 am

Geeze, I got so involved I forgot what I was here to do. Surprised smiley face

ops:

I first saw "Circles" via the link you posted at Morgul-steel. That's what I meant by the "original site". I had no idea it was based off of a RPG. Things based off of RPGs are usually episodic & rambling; everyone's favorite character's pithy comments have to be preserved, and of course there's all that messy background to cover. There is always the sensation that you, the reader, have somehow missed out on some details--everyone seems to know everyone else, and they all have these "adorable" idiosyncracies.

"Circles" has none of that. It is not possible to tell from your writing that this was ever intended to be anything other than a novel-length story.

Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:57 am

Khazar,

You are doing fine, but sometimes I worry about myself. Crazy smiley face

After spending 16 months reading the rambling monologues of players' favorite characters, I am surprised I can remember anything anymore. Smile smiley face

Pithy comments. Smile smiley face

Perhaps you have not endured the endless pithiness that I have. There was a hobbit filled with bubbling cheer, an elf who had some kind of fetish with eagles, a guy who wanted to kill off all the canon characters that he could in senseless, meaningless deaths, a psychopathic Gandalf (played by aforesaid person) who murdered Saruman for some unknown reason. There were positives in all this random nonsense though. The elves, hobbits, eagles and all the other clutter are long gone, but what remains are the two outstanding co-writers of mine.

This strange, bizarre mixture is in the background somewhere of The Circles, but hopefully, there will be no taint of episodic, rambling illogical happenings or persons.

>"Circles" has none of that. It is not possible to tell from your writing
>that this was ever intended to be anything other than a novel
>length story.

The process of reorientation, however, is difficult. I cannot totally rid my mind of visions of 16 months of weekend live action roleplays and reading things like "There is always hope" and "May Elbereth save us!"

Thank you, Khazar. Good words are pleasant to those who are just coming out of being shellshocked. Magician smiley face

Angmar

Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:55 pm

Thank you for the next three chapters. I liked our first close-up on an Easterling camp, with men not so very different from the men of the West.

"Blue eyes" chapter is outright brilliant. I read almost to the end trying to figure what was it about, Smile smiley face

before I understood at last that it was Doungha's dream.

And the "hunger" chapter. It is much more realistic than what we encounter in Tolkien. Indeed, an empty stomach helps to change one's views, if not one's loyalties. Tolkien's writings are either an epic or a chronicle. Such details are lost there.

As there was a discussion on the Prologue in the previous posts, I reread that part.

I can't say that it was off-putting, but puzzling, surely. Yes, the Prologue is beautiful and surreal and mysterious. Perhaps too mysterious. I tried hard to understand who was Lady Pharazani, but I failed. A Ruling Queen of Numenor? that means Tar-Telperien? - hardly. Names don't fit even if one is Quenia and the other Adunaic. Why then was she discussing war and politics? Why was her great-granddaughter called "a princess"? I sincerely believe that some hints could be great, at least as a foot-note.

>The Mordor Special Mission Flying Corps was done in a doodle by
>Tolkien and is included in "J.R.R. Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator."
>A picture of this emblem can be found at
http://www.forodrim.org/gobennas/heraldry/heraldry.htm

Thank you for posting the link. It seems so strange, so inappropriate for nazgul with bright colors and insect appearance! Really curious picture.

Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:08 am

I have to ask a serious question about "Hunger". Why would the officers permit the prisoners to fraternize with the men? Even if all they are doing is sharing food, sooner or later it is going to lead to problems. I'm afraid that this really tends to undermine the "Directives".

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:10 am

Khazar,

Here are the directives:

"No spoiling of the captives. All slaves are to be preserved intact except for the usual wear and tear of this commodity by travel or disease. No officer or man is allowed to do aught else than restrain female slaves or their issue by use of threat and intimidation, and no serious bodily injuries may be inflicted upon those in your care. No slaves, either male or female, can be seduced or ravished, nor is it permitted to force them to service any officer or man by use of their mouths or hands. All offenders guilty of such offenses will face the most severe of punishments: castration and enforced servitude in the slave labor camps."

These Directives prohibit all forms of sexual activity with slaves, as well as mutilation and excessive punishment. They say nothing about fraternization or sharing of food; that is allowable. "You can look but not touch." Captain Kourosh sent eleven trusted men, not hot-blooded sorts like Daungha, to guard the prisoners. The Easterlings are not all over-sexed perverts and most can certainly control themselves.

Captain Kourosh is a stickler for rules, almost to the point of obsession. Other men might not be so strict and would look the other way at their friends' indiscretions. It all depends upon individual character and dedication. There would be many incidents that would never be reported.

These slaves are the property of Mordor, but do not yet have human supervisors (masters). From most ancient times, it has been illegal and punishable often by fines, disfigurement or death to tamper with another's slave.

"If any one take a male or female slave of the court, or a male or female slave of a freed man, outside the city gates, he shall be put to death." - Code of Hammurabi, 15
"If he put out the eye of a man's slave, or break the bone of a man's slave, he shall pay one-half of its value." - Code of Hammurabi, 199

Captain Kourosh was concerned that Daugha's actions would set a bad example for the orcs, whom he viewed with pity but still considered as some form of simian. In the Dark Lands, there is inner politics, which will play a greater part later in the story. Some of the men of the East have very racist views about the orcs. So do the men of the West. This does not necessarily mean that all orcs are wild savages that will not obey orders, but many can be unruly at times, or downright rebellious. Men are always considered better than orcs. They are very different, and differences always make for separations. It is an ego trip to consider a group of others as "lesser" or "subhuman." The men look down on and dislike the orcs and the orcs feel the same way towards the men.

Yes, things may often seem confusing. However, since we have 80 chapters already written (and that does not even put a dent in the story we have planned!), it is much clearer to us. Smile smiley face

We apologize for any confusion but we promise that all will be made clear in time.

Elfhild and Angmar

Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:49 pm

Aganuzir,

>And the "hunger" chapter. It is much more realistic than what we
>encounter in Tolkien. Indeed, an empty stomach helps to change
>one's views, if not one's loyalties. Tolkien's writings are either an
>epic or a chronicle. Such details are lost there.

Hunger is a persuader as much as are swords and spears. It can cause an average person to do things he never would have done before. Hunger can force him to eat insects, rats and even in extreme cases, his fellow man. An empty stomach is a cruel master. Starvation, however, is not a factor for the captives, but mere boredom with the monotonous, meager fare.

>I can't say that it was off-putting, but puzzling, surely. Yes, the
>Prologue is beautiful and surreal and mysterious. Perhaps too
>mysterious. I tried hard to understand who was Lady Pharazani, but
>I failed. A Ruling Queen of Numenor? that means Tar-Telperien? -
>hardly. Names don't fit even if one is Quenia and the other Adunaic.
>Why then was she discussing war and politics? Why was her great
>granddaughter called "a princess"? I sincerely believe that some
>hints could be great, at least as a foot-note.

We fear that this woman and her family and friends will stay a mystery until the end of the story.

>Thank you for posting the link. It seems so strange, so inappropriate
>for nazgul with bright colors and insect appearance! Really curious
>picture.

The Mordor "Flying Corps Emblem," done in colors of black, white, red and green in the shape of some flying insect or strange bird "as seen from below." It is highly stylized, whatever it is. It appears to be some sort of heraldry device, such as used on standards or shields. I am as of yet undecided whether to include this emblem in the Circles or not, but it does have appeal. We borrow from all the works of Tolkien, not just LOTR, so this emblem could possibly appear at a later date.

Thank you for the good words. They mean a lot to us. Elfhild and I have always been considered "avant-garde" and while we proudly claim the title, we realize that many others do not like our work.

Angmar

Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:44 am

Of course you should include the Flying Corps emblem in the Circles! It is 100% Tolkien's own, so it is priceless. Also it will make readers to expand their knowledge, as few of them have ever seen it, I bet.

Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:03 pm

Aganuzir,

I think we'll fly with it.

(Please don't kill me for that one Twisted Evil smiley face

)

Seriously, once Elfhild and I figure out how to incorporate the insignia, we are going to take advantage of this gem. If nothing else, the "Corps" will become better known. I doubt very few have ever heard of the "Corps"; they will soon.

Angmar

Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:38 am

Chapter 18

It is nice to learn that the Riders of Rohan have not perished. Eomer is still around, but not Theoden, Merry or Eowyn. That leaves the readers wondering what has actually happened at Pelennor. Was it as in SD? But, as the Circles stand on their own, I think it would be nice to learn about the battle from one of the survivors. Has no one seen Angmar-Eowyn fight? If they did, they should be haunted by memories.

I liked the portraits of Osric, Oslaf and Swithulf. However, I would have expected their mood to be not so cheerful.

Strange that Swithulf, the simple miller's son, seems to know about Rivendell and the Elves dwelling there (as compared with Eomer's, as well as Boromir's and Faramir's, ignorance of the place in LOtR).

And another thing, as far as I know, the best way to get rid of a leech is to touch it with a burning twig. It would be easier than to waste precious salt on it. Smile smiley face

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Reviews for "The Circles: Book One: The Triumph of The Shadow"