Reviews for "The Circles: Book Two: Journey of Sorrow"

Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:23 am

ANGMAR - Agan, while the slaver has made a poor choice in picking a livelihood, I do not see his culture as being innately cruel. Actually, he is being kind to the children in his own way.

ELFHILD - One of the major themes in this part of the series is culture shock. Currently, many of the captives are going through a period of transition in which their old ways and ideas are being challenged and pushed to the limits by their exposure to this new culture, that of the Haradrim.

We shall see if Goldwyn and Fródwine change their perceptions of the Haradrim. However, dislike and distrust of the Haradrim and other "lesser men" have long been ingrained into the minds of the older captives. It is said that "old habits are hard to break." With the devastation wrought to Rohan, it might take a while before the Rohirrim accept the Southrons... if ever.

But we shall see...

ANGMAR - Since we are treating Tolkien's Middle-earth as an early version of the real earth, plagues do not necessarily have to be an act of any Power. The common cold and other ailments are not vindictive acts by Sauron. Quite certainly people would blame every ailment upon the Powers, but that does not mean they are guilty of causing them. People might look to such things as poor hygiene, poor sanitation, poor medicine, and such things as outbreaks of diseases such as typhus, flu, black plague, and other epidemics in these countries that are apart from Dunedain influence. Tolkien points out that childbirth killed a lot of women and children in both Gondor and Rohan. Of course, there is the "Melkor element," ie, the earth after Melkor is a "despoiled paradise" and a "fallen world."

Not even Bilbo was immune from the common cold. Smile smiley face

Khamul, thanks for reading the first book. You are correct - Sauron has little interest in humans except as candidates to worship and serve his own ego. Observe this quote by his master:

"'Now ye are Mine and must do My will,' he said. 'I do not trouble that some of you die and go to appease the hunger of the Dark; for otherwise there would soon be too many of you, crawling like lice on the Earth. But if ye do not do My will, ye will feel My anger, and ye will die sooner, for I will slay you.'" - "The Tale of Adanel," "Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth," Morgoth's Ring, p. 348

Melkor would certainly agree that plagues are an excellent way to curb excess population. They won't be crawling like lice upon the earth in places that do not have the benefit of the wisdom of the Dunedain and their advanced knowledge of medical arts.

In the first book, Angmar disagrees with Sauron because it is not the highest of political wisdom to anger a vassal too greatly. In the future, we will see who is correct or incorrect and what are the results. Smile smiley face

Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:59 am

Great new chapter, Angmar and Elfhild.

What a foolish woman, this Goldwyn! To turn down such a brilliant proposal which meant salvation for her and her sons as well.

Well we shall see what happens when they try to run away...

Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:13 pm

Agan,

In the next chapter, Goldwyn gets an almost "Fëanorian" case of madness. Foolish woman, indeed!

Angmar

Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:24 pm

Awesome speech! I was truly moved. I hope for the best...

Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:01 pm

It seems Feanorean madness never leads to good.

Poor Elfled - she should have voiced her opinion. It looks like the twins are really bound together stronger than sisters. And poor old Leofgifu - she is not so stiff-necked as she seemed, after all.

I have forgotten - why did the twins despise Goldwyn before her speech?

Awesome chapter.

Keep writing,

Agan

Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:48 pm

Aganuzir,

"Awesome speech! I was truly moved. I hope for the best..."

We shall see...

"It seems Feanorean madness never leads to good."

Indeed. Just ask the Noldor.

"Poor Elfled - she should have voiced her opinion. It looks like the twins are really bound together stronger than sisters. And poor old Leofgifu - she is not so stiff-necked as she seemed, after all."

Leofgifu has changed over the almost month-long journey (May 22 - June 17, the current date in the story). At first, she, too, was very defiant, although, being a sensible sort, she was never outspoken about it, only among the ladies of her own troop. During the march to Minas Tirith, she criticized the girls who flirted with the Khandian cavalrymen, for the Khandians were men of the enemy, men of darkness, savages, barbarians.

"She wondered if these men were even capable of returning the affection bestowed upon them by love-sickened maids. Would they treat them with honor, or would they simply take what they could get and give nothing in return? Even if a few among them were wholesome sorts, the Easterlings and Southrons could never compare with the men of the West. How could they? They were Easterlings and Southrons!" - "Red Fell the Dew Like Tears"

In this previous chapter (set on the 14th of June), Leofgifu questioned the basic humanity of the men who served the Dark Lord, damning the whole lot of them as evil. Are they even human, or twisted monsters like the orcs? Even the best among them were primitive in comparison to the enlightened West.

However, Leofgifu's mind is in a state of turmoil as she thinks about the future. Even though these Haradrim and Easterlings are "wicked men," still the captives are completely at their mercy.

"Yet in the hands of these evil men the fates of the captives were now held, and they were utterly dependent upon the goodness of those who regarded them as naught but pieces of property." - "Red Fell the Dew Like Tears"

As time goes by, somehow the men of the enemy become more human. Now, on the 17th of June, the men of darkness are seen as heroes.

"'What I am saying, and be neither shocked nor offended, is that there is nothing else for the two of you... no other hope... and if I understand things, there is some man - even though he may be a Southron or an Easterling - who would be more than willing to give you everything you need and want. He would treat you right, perhaps someday even make you his pampered darlings. A rich man, a lord,' she laughed wryly, 'maybe even a king.'" - "Will We Ever Meet Again?"

"I have forgotten - why did the twins despise Goldwyn before her speech?"

The twins really never disliked Goldwyn, but their mother did, on account of old grievances from their days as young maidens. It's not any serious matter - just a petty grudge that was never settled. One of Goldwyn's major misgivings is her inability to forgive those whom she feels have wronged her. All will be explained in the future. This theme plays a big part in Book 4.

In regard to the "oath" - it really isn't all that binding (not like the true Fëanorean oath, which called in the Valar as witnesses). The only one who was recorded to have definitely taken it is Waerburh, though others thought it in their hearts.

Elfhild

Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:31 pm

Thank you, Elfhild for your detailed answer. Smile smiley face

I liked the next chapter.

" By the holy Melkor's black balls, it's all over! We're nazhatuga! Shakh azubizgûk!"
That was priceless! Very Happy smiley face

Why didn't they make a good plan where to run beforehand?

Also, gripping a piece of wood and swimming down the Anduin was not a bad idea, I believe. Why nobody thought about it? They would eventually reach Pelargir and the free lands around the delta.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:51 pm

Great new chapter, Angmar and Elfhild!
So, you finally explained the glowing eyes. This is the cat then? Heh, I did not expect that. Please continue, I must know the fate of the twins! (And Waerburh, and Goldwyn, Aeffe...oh, I'm rambling.)
To put it simply, good work.

Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:10 pm

"That was priceless!" - Aganuzir

Tolkien implied that he had to censor the orc talk because in reality, it would have been too foul to print. However, The Circles does not censor the rich, vibrant, earthy flavor of orc speech. *grins*

"Why didn't they make a good plan where to run beforehand?" - Aganuzir

Before the captives arrived at Minas Tirith, the orc guards maintained a tight security on them. Though there is only about one mention of this in the previious chapters, they were guarded even when they had to answer the calls of nature. There was no opportunity to plan an escape.

However, after the captives were turned over to the slaver and his men, they found that their guards were far fewer in number and much more lienient than were their previous captors. This gave the captives hope, and the close proximity to Mordor and the Anduin made them more desperate.

With only two days remaining before they reached the Anduin, there was little time to plan.

"Also, gripping a piece of wood and swimming down the Anduin was not a bad idea, I believe. Why nobody thought about it? They would eventually reach Pelargir and the free lands around the delta." - Aganuzir

These women are peasants, many of whom cannot read nor write, and have never even seen a book. They are in a foreign country - Gondor - and although they have heard about the Anduin and Minas Tirith, they don't know anything about the land itself. Only the most wealthy would have any access to a book with a map. There would be many who never heard of Pelagir, and the possibility of going south would terrify them - they would be frightened that they would come in contact with the enemy. Others might be mistaken in their geography and think that the southern part of Gondor is really Harad.

Surprisingly, even in modern day times when people have access to books, TV and the internet, many people have no comprehension of the geography of the next state, sometimes even their own cities.

"So, you finally explained the glowing eyes. This is the cat then? Heh, I did not expect that." - Khamul

Khamul, indeed, the set of eyes in Chapter 23 belongs to an angry cat, the implication being that he was one of the descendants of the White Cat of Berúthiel. He was haunting the rubble around the fallen statue of her husband, King Tarannon Falastur. By desecrating the statue, he was both expressing his opinion of the sisters for disturbing his lair, and possibly of the ancient king of long ago. Indeed, "Even a small taste of vengeance could be sweet."

But always remember, all might not be as it seems in Osgiliath...

"Please continue, I must know the fate of the twins! (And Waerburh, and Goldwyn, Aeffe...oh, I'm rambling.)
To put it simply, good work." - Khamul

The tales of all of them will eventually be told, but it will be a long, long story, encompassing more than a few books.

Thank you all for reading.

Angmar and Elfhild

Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:00 pm

Very interesting chapter, Angmar and Elfhild!
WaW, Goldwyn abandoned her children! That was unexpected. I hope they will all be caught and reunited. Confused smiley face

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Reviews for "The Circles: Book Two: Journey of Sorrow"