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Thuriniel



Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 1:12 pm    Post subject: Rewrites Reply with quote

I'm considering very seriously to do some rewrites in the first chapters of my fic ... I was wondering how many of you have done rewrites and what process have you followed.

Quite honestly, I don't know where to start or how much I should change. I plan for the plot to remain the same, but I want to do dialogue changes, fix some discrepancies, and change little details that would make the fic closer to canon (with the exception of promiscuous elves, of course Laughing !).

Basically my question is ... When does rewriting become too much of a task?

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Panneth



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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can always rephrase the question as when are you happy enough with a long, progressive fic to just leave it alone.

Didn't you do rewrites a bit last year?

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inglor



Joined: 26 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thu,
When is it too much?, when you dread doing all you need to.
I have to take the BEAST of my own a little bit at a time.
The only way I can keep from chucking it (b/c it is so badly written) is to not try tackling too much. It's huge and is still growing but when I'm stuck on another project, it's a good distraction.

When can I let it alone? good question....



Inglor

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Maram68
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Joined: 11 May 2003
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Maria,

I have rewritten the first chapters of Adversity (and they still need tweaking) but I don't think you should change the plot or sense of anything you have written.

If you want to change the wording, ok.

I know how it feels to read the first chaps you wrote so many lightyears and tons less experience ago ...

Very Happy

But, then, you know I love The Bond, but what matters to me is what makes you happy.

Abrazos, amiga!

Claudia

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Viv
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Joined: 24 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think rewriting becomes too much of a task when you feel like shrugging and just putting the durn thing back up, as is. I'm in the middle of rewriting my massive smutty epic right now, and nothing is going the way it ought. I meant the tale to have subtle and intricate theme, but it turned out to really be all about a whiny princess and her sex life.

Rewriting is proving to me that I write whiny princesses' sex lives very well, but suck massively in the intricate-theme department. So am approaching that shrug-and-who-cares point.
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Thuriniel



Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Panneth wrote:
Didn't you do rewrites a bit last year?


Indeed ... but the only rewrites I'm happy with are the ones I did of the first chapter ... chapters 2-5 make me sick, plain and simple. Chapters 6-10 make me shiver a little bit, but not too bad.

When I reread chapters 2-5 all I ask myself is ... What was I thinking?! Why did I decide to follow the stupid movie? Why did I decide even to mess with the trilogy?! I should've used "The Hobbit"!

But, I love chapters 11 - to the end ... so all it's not all that bad.

I think that when you feel like that about your own fic, you should rewrite Embarassed ?

inglor wrote:
When is it too much?, when you dread doing all you need to. I have to take the BEAST of my own a little bit at a time.


I'm dreading it, no doubt about it, but I'm thinking that if I wait until it's finished (after all, I only have two chapters left plus epilogue), I would be more "relaxed" and less pressured about tackling the project.

Good luck with your BEAST Very Happy ! I do think you've made a smart move by writing everything first, getting acquainted with plot and characters, and now revising, rewriting and when you're happy with the results, you can start to post. I'm too impatient and I don't have the discipline to do that Wink !

Maram68 wrote:
I know how it feels to read the first chaps you wrote so many lightyears and tons less experience ago ...


And that is most of my problem ... it is now that I really know what makes my characters tick. I don't plan to change the plot, mostly is changing the wording, the riddance of awful dialogue, and giving the characters a bit more dimension in the first chapters.

Viv wrote:
I think rewriting becomes too much of a task when you feel like shrugging and just putting the durn thing back up, as is. I'm in the middle of rewriting my massive smutty epic right now, and nothing is going the way it ought. I meant the tale to have subtle and intricate theme, but it turned out to really be all about a whiny princess and her sex life.


I knew that you were rewriting your fic and I was wondering how it was going ... does this mean I have no hope Wink ?

Really, I can see your point about the project becoming too much. I ask myself why am I doing this ... after all, my readers have already read those chapters ... so why bother? So it may be that in reality we do rewrites for ourselves ... and if we get tired of it ... maybe we should move on to other projects? ...

... but when you're a perfectionist (I am one of those!) that is so incredibly hard!

Everyone ... thanks for all your input ... I really am glad to know I'm not the only one crazy enough to tackle such massive project ... wish me luck Wink !

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Panneth



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thuriniel wrote:
Panneth wrote:
Didn't you do rewrites a bit last year?


Indeed ... but the only rewrites I'm happy with are the ones I did of the first chapter ... chapters 2-5 make me sick, plain and simple. Chapters 6-10 make me shiver a little bit, but not too bad.

When I reread chapters 2-5 all I ask myself is ... What was I thinking?! Why did I decide to follow the stupid movie? Why did I decide even to mess with the trilogy?! I should've used "The Hobbit"!

But, I love chapters 11 - to the end ... so all it's not all that bad.


Ah right ok. Sorry my memory of last year is a little hazy...

If you want help with this just give me a shout! You know me and canon...

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Thuriniel



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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

!
Panneth wrote:
If you want help with this just give me a shout!


I shall ... you'll probably hear me loud and clear Very Happy!

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GypsieRose



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do a lot of tweaking and rewriting, myself. My feeling is that if I find re-reading the work painful and I know how to fix it, then it's worth the effort. Just my $.02!

--Rose
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NancyBrooke
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slightly different question, same subject:

Just rec'd a review of my Mithril-nominated fic "Gaming" (made it to the semi's Carrot ) from a Mithril judge. S/he objected to some things that, with a little research into Elven/Rivendell culture, I could 'fix'.

But I'm not sure if I should. "Gaming" was, I believe, my first finished/posted fic and I kind of like that it reflects the naivete or shallow level of Tolkien-knowledge I had at the time (some might argue still do). Changes would, well, change that.

What do y'all think? Should I 'grow up' this fic? It's probably not a big deal and would be unnoticeable to new readers, but I kind of think the work should stand, imperfect as it was but true to who I was when I wrote it.

What do you think? Do you ever rewrite when you learn something more about ME? Am I just pissing sour grapes at an almost entirely negative review? Don't mess with me.

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Last edited by NancyBrooke on Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Viv
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NancyBrooke wrote:
What do y'all think? Should I 'grow up' this fic? It's probably not a big deal and would be unnoticeable to new readers, but I kind of think the work should stand, imperfect as it was but true to who I was when I wrote it.

What do you think? Do you ever rewrite when you learn something more about ME? Am I just pissing sour grapes at an almost entirely negative review? Don't mess with me.


It depends on what you want to read when you look at that story 10 years from now: do you want to read it for entertainment or nostalgia? I have quite a few nostalgia pieces, and I have no plans to update them. They show me where I came from. And not to compare myself to The Great One in any way, but John Keats kept his early works and every draft in between. Sometimes it's nice as a writer to have evidence of your progression.

On the other hand, as a reviewer, sometimes I do check back on stories I've reviewed to see if the author has done anything in response to my concrit. If not, I usually don't offer concrit in future reviews for that author. It's a waste of my time. Doesn't mean I don't review; I just don't try to prepare detailed suggestions and instead confine myself to "Yay, what a great scene with Frodo!"

Finally, I've heard quite a bit about Mithril judges being crude and insulting in their feedback this year. That is hugely disappointing, and makes me somewhat ashamed to have been a judge. I'm sorry that they raked a charming story like "Gaming" over the coals, but rest assured that they've done so with several other stories that I think are stellar, so you are in good company.
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NancyBrooke
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Viv wrote:
Finally, I've heard quite a bit about Mithril judges being crude and insulting in their feedback this year. That is hugely disappointing, and makes me somewhat ashamed to have been a judge. I'm sorry that they raked a charming story like "Gaming" over the coals, but rest assured that they've done so with several other stories that I think are stellar, so you are in good company.

To clariify, the review was not harsh, just negative and without positive comment. The criticisms were not even unjust, just, perhaps, small - the Elvishness of names, e.g. (actually, there was one large criticism - characterization, which I sort of pooh-poohed; I've been told before that this story violates LACE and long ago decided not to rewrite on that basis - I would have no story!).

If you were the fair, constructive, impartial judge I know you were you have no reason to be ashamed at your participation, only proud!

PS: Thanks for the 'charming' and the encouragement!

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Viv
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NancyBrooke wrote:
To clariify, the review was not harsh, just negative and without positive comment. The criticisms were not even unjust, just, perhaps, small - the Elvishness of names, e.g. (actually, there was one large criticism - characterization, which I sort of pooh-poohed; I've been told before that this story violates LACE and long ago decided not to rewrite on that basis - I would have no story!).


Well, one way to interpret it, then, would be not as concrit but as explanation. In my feedback, I tried to let the authors know what I deducted points for, so that they would have an answer to "Why didn't my fic win?" Which is, always, a valid question.

Going on that interpretation, you shouldn't feel compelled to take any of her suggestions, unless you are completely comfortable doing so.
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Andreth



Joined: 24 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoyed the story, Nancy - partly for the fact that Boromir had sex in it, but mostly for the fact that it was well written and showed a lot of imagination on your part. Just my opinion, but I didn't see any glaring problems with the way you depicted the culture there. I admit a few of the males' names seemed a little awkward, but they were just fleeting references and not central to the story. As for LACE, I won't comment on that in too much detail because it always annoys me to hear 'your story violates LACE and therefore isn't canon'. LACE is in HoMe, not part of the works Tolkien himself published, so it's not what people define as 'canon. In my opinion that's something that is up to each writer as to how they want to incorporate it into their story. You listed your deviations from the books in your notes, so people reading your story are already aware that it's a little AU in places.

If *you* feel the story should be changed, then you should change it. If you're happy with it as it is, then you should leave it. Don't change your story based solely on someone else's opinion, because you're the one who ultimately should be happy with it. The fact that the story made it to the semi-finals should show you that the story has merit as is. You do what you think is right for the story, because even though this person was acting as a judge in a contest, it's still just a personal opinion.

Anna
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Andreth



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Viv wrote:
Finally, I've heard quite a bit about Mithril judges being crude and insulting in their feedback this year. That is hugely disappointing, and makes me somewhat ashamed to have been a judge. I'm sorry that they raked a charming story like "Gaming" over the coals, but rest assured that they've done so with several other stories that I think are stellar, so you are in good company.


Viv, you always go out of your way to be fair and polite to people, and I've no doubt you made an excellent judge.

BTW, how do you go about getting the reviews for a contest story? Since I got runner-up in a category will I not get to see what the judges said? After Nancy's comments and yours, I know I'd be better off not knowing, but it's that damned morbid curiosity. Like what compels you to rubber neck at a car wreck or watch a Hillary Duff music video. Shocked
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