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| You read a sub-par fic and believe in the Innate Goodness of Reviews, do you.... |
| Leave a simple "good job. enjoyed" review |
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6% |
[ 3 ] |
| Leave no review ("if I can't say something nice, better say nothing at all") |
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14% |
[ 7 ] |
| Leave an honest review, constructive crit included |
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31% |
[ 15 ] |
| Contact author privately with constructive crit |
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8% |
[ 4 ] |
| Rate the story one or two stars and move on (OSA rating system only) |
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6% |
[ 3 ] |
| "I never finish reading sub-par fics" |
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33% |
[ 16 ] |
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| Total Votes : 48 |
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daw
Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 46
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 Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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I think how one reviews has to vary with the situation. I'm an editor in real life, and I send authors pages of critique from referees and from me, and I don't leave anything out because these people are trying to earn their living and had better be tough. Anything I've ever written professionally has gotten much better as I struggle to meet reviewers' expectations. Notice that these reviews are given BEFORE publication, which is when it's easiest to make changes and learn.
But fanfiction is different. I have learned a lot from my beta and make changes to almost every chapter, ranging from fixing typos to developing my plot better. But once I post a chapter, I'm excited about it and want to hear how readers react to it. I am grateful when someone tells me that I've made a mistake I can easily correct, a typo say or a canon error that I can fix, although I take both of those things better from a reviewer who has reviewed me before. That is, I am less happy when someone jumps in for the first time to tell me a mistake I made. But for me, reviews at that point are all about the community of readers and writers and fans. I'm not looking for training or education.
When I review others, I usually just mean to let folks know I've read and enjoyed their story. If the story is very bad, I usually don't read it. I don't offer criticism by review. If I feel I have the time and skill to help a writer, I think the best thing to do would be to offer to beta. And then, what I would do with someone who had multiple problems is pick one or two and work on those first. These folks are not like the professional authors I work with, who HAVE to be able to take it, not if they've still got multiple problems.
I guess I see writing fanfic as a hobby. I don't want to do anything that will lessen my enjoyment or that of other writers either.
My 2cents worth. |
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Viv
Challenge Admin
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreth wrote: | | Say you have an author who clearly wants to know why their story isn't working or what's wrong with their writing but there's not a lot of positive to buffer the negative with? I'm very curious to see how other people approach that kind of situation because it's one that I'm not sure I always handle correctly. |
I've absolutely been in that situation, and I have no idea what to do. If the author has asked for concrit, usually I'll send it. But I've inadvertently wounded a few muses by doing that, so I'm a little paranoid now. If I think the writer is especially delicate, often I'll remind her that this is really just my opinion (except the grammar stuff; that is correct  ) and that she should only take the suggestions that she feels complement the story she has in her head.
I also drag out that old song and dance about how your story isn't your baby. The baby is the idea in your head; the story is more like a photo of the baby. Sometimes the photo can be out of focus or overexposed, causing viewers to not understand how downright precious the baby is. But that don't mean the baby's sick.
And then, of course, I lay into the "photo." |
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KhazarKhum
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 234
Location: Quartz Hill, CA--USA
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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Waitaminnit, Viv--you mean you're not a jackbooted thug who cruelly pulls the delicate butterfly wings off of writers before crushing their fragile hearts beneath your spur-studded boots??
Because that's what I do.  |
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Aenigmatic
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Gah...I think I've kept the steam in me long enough when it comes to the touchy subject of reviewing.
Personally I only leave good reviews when I hit the 'review' button; it's something like saving the nice words for those who deserve it. If a story is bad, normally I drop it soon after reading the 3rd of 4th paragraph and don't even bother writing to the author about it.
I'm glad for this community, really, where people are generally a nicer and more understanding bunch. For some reason it irks the **** out of me to see how some people on FF.net go out of their way simply to flame (some flame with poor English, whom I think have already forfeited their right to do so; others flame in excellent English as a way of asserting literary superiority). Of course it's something I don't have any control over, don't I?
If constructive criticism is to be given, I have always advocated and suspect that I might always advocate a measured tone and careful word choice. Sarcasm (e.g phrases like 'Ouch, you might want to get back to your books to study for this English exam that you are most likely not going to pass'), which flamers under the guise of being constructive critically use too often, is almost always unnecessary and past anything respectful. |
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Saralitazie
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 297
Location: Stamping Property of Litzy the Lush all over Glorfindel.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| miriel361 wrote: | I think you have hit on a major point here. Writers do tend to be insecure. We are unhappy when we don't get reviews. Then we are happy when we get one or two. Then we expect to get at least two but really want four..... and on and on it goes.
You either have to get over the insecurity or give up. Or at least stop checking your inbox every two hours... |
Damn. I've been discovered! But it's true - we are insecure. Why? Personally, for me, it's because I'm very, very unsure about sharing myself with other people, and every time I share some of my writing, I'm sharing some of me. I'm afraid that if I let people know me too well (through my writing or otherwise) they'll rip me to shreds...thus you can see that my internal self-confidence is about zero.
I think that even if you dislike a story, for whatever reasons - unless it's beyond horrible, such as that badfic we all avoid like the plague *shudder* - I believe you should leave a review, if only one saying "nice plot, here's some suggestions". In fact, that's the sort of review I love best: one with ideas of how to improve my writing. Perhaps you'll help the uncertain, floundering writer develop his/her talents better through a few suggestions...which may inspire others to leave helpful suggestions.
Be nice. Be helpful. Be involved. Be mindful of others insecurities. Above all, suggest, suggest, suggest.
_________________
"Society does not want free men. They torment freedom, democracy, anything you want. But they do not want free men. Society wants conditioned men; men who march in step." - Henri Charriere
-Litzy the Lush |
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GypsieRose
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 105
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Sometimes when I don't review (and I don't always), it's for a reason that I haven't seen mentioned yet: because I don't feel that my reasons for not liking a story are particularly valid ones for anyone except me.
As a small example: today in another archive, I read a Faramir/Eowyn story which had a passage where Faramir was reflecting that Eowyn could probably beat him in a swordfight. Now, I don't happen to agree with that assessment, but what would be the point of saying so? I suspect the author of the story wants Eowyn to be that good with a sword and wouldn't enjoy the story as much if she weren't. I could point to the passage where Eowyn thinks no Rider of the Mark would outmatch Faramir in battle, but what good would that do? It would probably only annoy the writer, who doesn't necessarily place a high priority on sticking firmly to canon anyway.
And that's one instance of one detail. Sometimes a whole story is made up of many similar passages strung together, to the point where I don't recognize the world or characters they present. The writer has a perfect right to see and present the characters that way, but I have an equal right not to enjoy the story if she does. So sometimes I just shrug, figure our views of the book/movie don't match up, and move on.
--Rose |
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Viv
Challenge Admin
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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This generally goes without saying, but someone pointed it out on another thread, and I think it's relevant here:
A concrit review is one that points out flaws with the story. A flame is a review that attacks the author personally. Flaming completely negates the legitimacy of any kind of review. It's never helpful to assume intentions or thoughts or intellect or reading history of the author (therefore reviews like "Go read the books!" or "You are a dummy!" are completely useless). |
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Rous
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 358
Location: Trying to stay below the radar
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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As for myself, I always try to start with a positive. On one site, my most posted review is "That was interesting." (And no, it was not ff.net.) That being said, if I have found grammar or spelling errors, I do point them out. I leave the canon issues to the canatics. I do not have enough knowledge to argue those points, and if the author wants to change canon issues, who am I to argue? And I always thank the author for posting. Even if it is a bad story, I can learn something from it myself. Like what not to include in my stories. And ff.net does not have the corner market on lame reviews. One I got from Tolkien Online said,
"Finding Nemo
XXXXXXXXXX
October 22, 2004 : 2:53 PM
This poem was so boring, i think i passed out. You could have written the dictionary before you wrote that. Why don't you write about something good, okay?
Rating: 0
My answer:
XXXXXXXX, pass this.
Rous3
October 22, 2004 : 8:23 PM
I applaud your courage to post. It means a great deal to me to get constructive comments. I have an idea. We can have a contest. We can see which improves first, my boorishness, or your lack of proper grammar. I have a policy that when I read a story, if I cannot say at least one good thing about it, I say nothing at all. It would behoove you to consider adopting a similar policy of your own. Since I could find no postings for you here, I cannot compare your review with your writing skills and judge for myself whether or not you know of what you speak. If your review is any indication of your comunication skills, then I am not in any danger. When you learn proper grammar, then come back and leave me a comment. Meanwhile, either pay attention in your Jr, High English class, or invest in a good book on grammar. You can find one at the library. Go through the door marked IN. Just ask someone to help you. I would hope that your oral delivery is better than your written one.
Rating: No Rating
Then her next two posts
GO TO PAGE 22 and 20
XXXXXXXX
October 23, 2004 : 4:04 PM
Shut up loser! the only reason why i type with bad grammar is I go on msn all the time!! I wrote a new poem but i don't think it got published. It was pretty, good, and I am not dumb either, i am acully really good at poetry. peace out
Rating: No Rating
oops
XXXXXXXX
October 23, 2004 : 4:05 PM
I made alot of spelling errors in that one
Rating: No Rating
Turns out she is a seventh grade student who is an avowed ADD and ADHD sufferer. When I read her poem, it really was not bad, and I told her so, along with a few spelling corrections.
And I have left a few stories with no reviews, if I cannot finish them, or find at least one thing good to say. As I said, interesting is the one I leave the most. |
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Viv
Challenge Admin
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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I actually don't believe you have to be a better writer in order to thoughtfully criticize a piece of fiction. I frequently criticize works that I could never hope to write myself. I'm just not that talented. However, I do have some nifty letters on my resume that say I know a thing or two about writing and literature.
What's that old adage about those who can't do are critics (or editors)? Just so.  |
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mistressofbucklebury
Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 251
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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My question isn't so much about writing reviews as it is about asking for them.
I've just posted my first fic and really want to get some feedback on it. I'm not looking for loads of people to praise it and tell me it's wonderful (although that would be nice  ) I just honestly want to know what people think especially looking for constructive critisim since I really don't know what I'm doing or where I'm at with this whole little adventure into writing. How do I go about getting feedback, aside from begging for it?
MoB |
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 23
Location: Looking at shiny things
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | I actually don't believe you have to be a better writer in order to thoughtfully criticize a piece of fiction. I frequently criticize works that I could never hope to write myself. I'm just not that talented. However, I do have some nifty letters on my resume that say I know a thing or two about writing and literature.
What's that old adage about those who can't do are critics (or editors)? Just so. |
I have to admit I am still a bit wary of leaving criticism in reviews, partly because I have had bad reactions in the past, and though I doubt if I'd get the same here, it is hard to get rid of the feeling. Also I have that thing where I wonder about my position in regards leaving a review - I'm not an editor, I have no letters after my name to say that I know anything, anything I've tried to have published has been rejected and there are those out there who'd say my writing is hardly up to scratch itself, so I just feel awkward giving my opinion.
Actually, does that qualify me as a coward? 
_________________
Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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Rous
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 358
Location: Trying to stay below the radar
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceWeavil wrote: |
Actually, does that qualify me as a coward? |
If it does, you are not alone. The only criticism I like to leave is for grammar and spelling. I feel I am safe that way. And I try to leave it as a suggestion. When you start to get into issues with the content of the story, well, I feel that that is creative content and I do not want to deal with it. Poetic license and all of that. You can say pretty much what you want, just spell it correctly.
_________________
The only opinions that count, are those of the ones in control.
You make hay while the sun shines; beans you can combine after dark.
Duchess of the Independent Resort State of Mexico (est. 10/28/2004)
Purveyor of Buttershots and popcorn. 
Last edited by Rous on Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 23
Location: Looking at shiny things
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Rous wrote: | | SpaceWeavil wrote: |
Actually, does that qualify me as a coward? |
If it does, you are not alone. The only criticism I like to leave is for grammar and spelling. I feel I am safe that way. And I try to leave it as a suggestion. When you start to get into issues with the content of the story, well, I feel that that is creative content and I do not want to deal with it. Literary license and all of that. You can say pretty much what you want, just spell it correctly. |
That's about the only criticism I've ever left as well, and I was terrified about that
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Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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NancyBrooke
Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 160
Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| mistressofbucklebury wrote: | | How do I go about getting feedback, aside from begging for it? |
Pretty much like this, and by posting, which you've already done. Also you can post a note on the Shameless-Self-Promotion thread, which is made for situtations just like yours.
MoB's fic is very promising - go check it out!!
_________________
NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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Moralanqua
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1051
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Unashamed cheeky cow here!
I tell it straight. I get tantrums and tears and have people declare me their guru. Its all meaningless to me. If you put your crap or genius on the web, its there for all to see and if you ASK for reviews or feedback, you HAVE to take the good with the bad. Otherwise, keep the crap/genius to yourself.
I tend to leave honest praise and mention anything that didnt 'sit right' with me - be it a name or a confusing sentance. At the same time, if a story is so awful that I want to reach through my monitor and b1tchslap the writer for wasting my time, I just go 'ugh' and leave it alone. Only if there is real potentially would I intervence further and usually I end up Beta reading the chapters that were 'urgh'.
So, basically, I may be harsh and honest - but i will always back that up with help and assistance, even if it isnt asked for!
Afterall, this is fanfiction and we are all stealing from someone else.
_________________
I am no longer posting on the Forums. If you need me, I am lurking in the archives, reading and reviewing. You can also catch me at Demented Indigo! |
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