[Maram68]

Excuse me if I am out of place or order or topic, but I was so very upset today, that I needed to read other people's opinion on this issue.

You see, there is this young woman (in her early 20's) who attacked a fellow friend and writer, with following statement:

" ... I think you should be ashamed of yourself. You're 40 and all you can do is live through a computer ... " and other niceties I prefer to keep unquoted. (BTW, my friend is far from 40 yet)

In my LJ I asked my buddies about what was the net to them. It was truly enlightening to see that most people had just found a place to share with fellow-minded people and indulge into writing and reading ... it is a place for solace.

Statements like the one I quoted previously make me think why are we, those women well beyond our teen years suppossed to be pathetic or freaks. I don't feel that way, and I am most certain that most of you don't, either.

We have lives: jobs, families, kids, husbands, tons of activities in RL. So are we pathetic or freaks because we have found another space where we can also evolve in another aspects?

What do you think?

This is a question for everyone, above and below their teens...



C.

[sindohte]

Well my initial response would be to tell that fool of a girl to piss off. Okay now that I feel slightly better, it is interesting that this 20-something year old is being hypocritical in attacking your friend for using the Internet when she is using the very same medium herself

I think that the Internet means a lot of different things for different people. One big major way that the Internet has helped me is that it has put a world of knowledge at my fingertips. No longer am I forced to wait for weeks for my local Waldenbooks to order a particular psychology book that I need and that they will charge me full price and then a "shipping fee." Instead I can books in a week or less and often at below the listed price.

I have always used the Internet to stay in contact with the people that I have known from my RL. However in more recent years, I have used it as a way to meet people with similar interests. And it is a whole lot easier to strike up a conversation with someone here who gets all excited about Elves or Tolkien in general, rather than someone from my day to day life who is thinking to themselves, "She is a bit obsessed with those movies."

In my opinion, online communities such as OSA allow people the chance to meet other people. It allows people to learn about Tolkien in a group setting, instead of sitting holed away by themselves. Frankly a group is much more interesting because you get to hear many different viewpoints. And hopefully with time, you might be able to see where the other person is coming from.

So are there pathetic freaks out there on the Internet? Most definitely. There are also pathetic freaks you can just as easily encounter in your RL as well. I just think that the 20 yo girl was just angry and lashed out in a way that she knew would hurt your friend. She knew that the Internet was something that your friend enjoyed participating in, just as I am sure she does her other RL activities such as family, friends, etc., All that I have to say is that without a doubt it was a very sucky thing to say

[NancyBrooke]

Well, I will freely admit (online) to feeling like a freak - but not because I'm 40.

Though I use generic e-mail a lot to communicate with my friends, I draw a clear distinction between my online 'life' and my 'real' life. I don't want them mixing, in part because there is a freak stigma attached to Tolkien (though less and less), fandom, and fanfiction. It was a big deal for me to admit to my hubby how I spend my afternoons. I have friends who are into Tolkien and we've had our obsessive conversations and enjoyed seeing/discussing the movies together. But I don't tell them about this.

Writing is an enormously important outlet for me. I have an exhausting and often frustrating toddler and a husband who works too much. Writing is both an outlet and an escape, and I need it. Reading, watching films, etc. are also good escapes, but not good outlets.

I don't think there's an age requirement to writing fanfiction, but I do put a quality restriction on my reading of fanfiction and, largely but by no means entirely, fiction writen by younger folks I find is less polished, complex, and subtle so, less interesting to me.

But I would never tell someone they couldn't write because of their age. Hell, I wouldn't tell anyone they couldn't write; that would be like telling them not to dream.

Whew! stepping down now ...

[Yavanie]

Trying your hand at writing is never an age thing. You are never too young (or old) to write. It does take experience and practice and feedback (even criticism).

I applaud anyone who has the courage to submit something dear to them to the criticism of others.

As to the response your friend received - that's what the delete key is for.

NB - i know all about the frustration of dealing with kids/husbands/home responsibilities (we are attempting potty training - definitely need some form of escape from RL!).

One of these days (kids and time permitting) I want to try my hand at fiction writing, and I'll post it here where I know the feedback will be constructive and mostly kind. If it's not, I'll delete it and move on knowing I had the courage to try.

Until then, I'll enjoy what I find here, so invite your friend to get into this genre and post here, we'd love to review it (and we won't ask how old she is).

Yavanie

[Moralanqua]

Claudia, if i had a penny for every time i heard that, i'd be sailing the med on a yacht by now!

Its a small and ignorant mind who needs to blow out your friends flame, to make hers shine brighter.

Have a cocktail, smile and tell her to kiss yer arse!

[Ania]

Speaking as a younger writer ( 18 ), I have to say that I was absolutely furious that someone would write that about someone who is 40, she had absolutely no right. Fanfiction is something that allows people to express themselves in another way, I personally find it a resource that is essential within my life.

True, I don't have a family to worry about or a partner or a curreer, but I have exams and I find that fanfiction and expressing myself in this way allows me to rid myself of the emotion that builds up. The girl that said that is a complete cow, she simply has no respect, no one has the right to say that someone should not write whatever age they are.

I admit that I am younger and therefore less experienced at writing, but I would have thought that is a reason to respect older writers. Age has no importance in this area, I for one value the effort of more experienced writers who are willing to beta my work.

That girl is completely wrong and she had no right to say what she did.

[BittenBuggy]

I am a freak -- but not because I enjoy associating online with people of similar interests. I'm with Sind -- not many people in RL appriciate the fine art that is Tolkien and you talk to them about it and they either:

1. Look at you funny
2. Space out
3. Call you a Tolkien-freak/nerd/geek exc.

I have it a bit easier because many of my friends/collegues are (ta da!) college english professors. They appriciate good writing and we all get tickled pink discussing/disecting books.

*Shrugs* Tis the way of the world... but I am so thankful for this little group Hugs for everybody!

[Vulgarweed]

Be of good cheer!

I don't think you'll find anyone here, regardless of age, who thinks that what that girl said to your friend is anything but a nasty jackass thing to say.

I'm reminded of something C.S. Lewis said: "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."

Beware of people who haven't quite got the hang of adulthood themselves and so are very eager to police what it ought to be like for other people.

[BittenBuggy]

Excellent excellent quote.

[dolarabee]

I totally agree with Lewis's comment. Right on.

And I think we got our own worthy 'quoter' right here:

[SilverMoonLady]

I must back up everything that has been previously said, adding only this: while often the more 'polished' pieces are written by writers above 18, and the least 'refined' are often authored by the under 18 set, there are almost too many exceptions to make it a rule. Creativity has no boundary of age, but practice and maturity does help in the 'polish' department.
It sounds to me like the young lady in question is a movieverse fan and can't imagine what a mom with kids and a job can possibly want with just a 'movie', completely unaware that there are fans out there of the book who have a love and passion for that world and for longer than she's been alive. Another case of someone not realizing yet that their 'parents' are actually pretty cool:)

[Rous]

I do not have much that I can add to the others. I agree with all that has been said. My only issue with younger writers (and I am really refering to the 10-16 age group, ie fanfic.net and such) is that they try to write about subjects for which they have no knowledge. I was speaking to another member about some of the sex stories written on FF.net. It was laughable what some of these kids think goes on. It is unrealistic and makes for a bad read. And it is not just sex. If you cannot research the subject enought to at least make it plausible, then you should find another subject. There are young writers who can pull it off. And there are older ones that should find another venue for their creativity.
This site is my favorite because it allows us to vent. We can make fun of ourselves and know that no one is going to get bent out of shape. We can discuss adult subjects and banter with adult humor.
My husband thinks only in black and white. That is how he deals with life and all it encompasses. While I love him dearly, he has all the intellectual creativity of a rock. He is a whiz at working with metal and electricity, but sees no value whatsoever in my music or writing. I would not even attempt to read anything he would try to write. He is too cut and dry. On the other hand, my sister was getting poetry published at the age of fourteen.
I do not think age is the defining factor, but I do know that my music and poetry have taken on a sharper element with age. And I will admit that I am in the over forty group. But, who has the time and energy to devote to art when they are busy raising kids and trying to please a husband? They have had twenty-five years from me, and I would like a little for myself. That is why I am here. Because there are people here who know that daily life is hard and frustrating, and this is an avenue to vent a little. To complain on occation. To get the validation that is lacking from demanding kids and uncreative spouses.

*quietly puts soapbox away and sighs*

Thank you for letting me vent.

[miriel361]

Rous - perhaps our hubbies should meet? They sound very much alike.... lol

[dolarabee]

[inglor]

This (the Net) is the only place I can comfortably "geek out" and immerse myself in Tolkien. Most of my friends are not nearly as interested in the Prof as me. It is still too geeky. My wife does not share my enthusiasm but is very accommodating. She even encourages my writing, but she gets lost in the Elven names and I usually have to explain Finwe's offspring to her...
Nancy said something about this being an escape and an outlet, I completly agree.
I beginning to think it is more appropriate for older folks who only have snippets of time to "escape" or are tied down in other ways. I have finally found a hobby where I don't need a lot of expensive equipment, have to drive for hours, or take a lot of prep/cleanup time. And exercises my mind.

Inglor