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War & Middle Earth

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BittenBuggy



Joined: 27 Dec 2003
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Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boromir had plenty to spare. Laughing
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sindohte



Joined: 13 May 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well to be serious again, how about we compare and contrast Boromir's perspective on the War of the Ring vs. that of Legolas. Both were heirs to kingdoms that had been under siege by Sauron and his minions. How would Boromir's human perspective of the situation differed from that of Legolas? Because if you think about it, Legolas had an escape clause. He could have just sailed off to the Undying Lands and have left the humans to deal with evil overtaking Arda.
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SilverMoonLady



Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you've certainly pointed out the main difference there: for Boromir, there was no other choice (no honorable one, and therefore none). It can be argued that having been raised with and to care for the elves his father led, Legolas also had to have felt some commitment to the people of Mirkwood though.
But certainly, in terms of their cultural and temperamental differences, Boromir would be solely focused upon the fighting occuring on the physical/mortal plane of existence in the present time. True defeat of Sauron was likely something he did not forsee in his lifetime, if ever, and the fight for Gondor was more like an endless siege (especially viewed in the mortal lifespan) than a series of actions with some end in sight.
Legolas, facing a similar situation with Dol Guldur on his doorstep had at least the advantage of his father taking the long view (possibly). I can't remember if the guestimate on his age would allow him to remember Greenwood the Great before it became Mirkwood, but that might factor in as well, to have seen the shadow creep in rather than know it all your life. If there is a beginning there must be an end.
So in the light of this, it makes sense that to Boromir, the Ring can only be a weapon to continue the fight, and give it a heretofore impossible end in victory. Legolas might well recognize the value of Elrond and Gandalf's advice in this matter, seeing that they could 'see' further than he or the 'younger' members of the council could. The 'wisdom' over-rode the 'might'.
And I could babble on and on and on...

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BittenBuggy



Joined: 27 Dec 2003
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Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is an excellent way to look at it SML. But it wasn't like the older Elves weren't tempted by the rings at all. Galadrial was ancient - born in Aman before the Noldor even came to ME - and she wanted it. So I never did understand why Legolas (and Gimli) weren't ever portrayed as wanting it for themselves. Personally, I think Daddy gave Legolas whatever he wanted, so what good was the ring? Razz
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SilverMoonLady



Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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Location: Breaking in a Brandybuck... *wicked grin*

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, why didn't Gimli, a dwarf and therefore predisposed to covet such things, make more of an attempt here?
It's not as if he is the humble and retiring sort... We actually only get a few people's perspective on the Ring's allure, but if the mere proximity of it was a temptation to Boromir, why not the others? Is it just that they were tempted but never acted upon it or confronted with it, and so left unexamined by the author?(Someone ran with a bunny like that, wherein Merry took the Ring. I understand things got a little dark after that, I haven't had the time to read on through.)
Or was it that the situation was so very dire in Boromir's life that need of some solution made him more vulnerable?

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Beruthiel



Joined: 15 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, but I don't think dwarves were so easily swayed by magic rings. After all they had 7 rings (and for a long time: I think Thorin Oakenshield's father held the last one when he was taken to Dol Guldur). Yet they never became wraiths (unlike the mighty kings of men). They used their rings to build the dwarven hoards (not that it did them much good as these were all devoured by dragons).

Perhaps the lure of the ring is linked to what you most desire:

Men want power (Galadriel too, is that not why she came to Middle Earth, to command her own realm?)
Dwarves want treasure

That leaves the question: what do elves want?

Beruthiel
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SilverMoonLady



Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, but we know what the elves want: to enjoy unchanging beauty. That is heart of the problem, the world changes, it must change, and so things must pass. The elven rings had the power to 'preserve', to stop time. Remember Lothlorien? Unchanging, time passed strangely there, it seemed outside of the normal course.
But as observed earlier, elves, like parents, might have wanted to better control the unruly 'children' around them, hence the attraction and peril of the Ring, especially to someone like Galadriel.

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sindohte



Joined: 13 May 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would speculate that it was the fact that Boromir had both internal and external pressures to excel and prove himself to be a leader to his people. As a mortal, Denethor knew that he would not be around forever, so he had to make sure that Boromir was ready to step into the role of Steward of Gondor. About a week or so ago, I had a discussion with someone (I think it was Maram) who pointed out to me that Legolas did not have the same pressure to be a leader, because the chances of Thranduil dying were very slim. And if his father decided to go to the Undying Lands, there would be enough opportunity for Legolas to take up more of the responsibilites for running the kingdom of Mirkwood before his father left.
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miriel361



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

loki - the scandanavian god ( the bad one) was bad because he always sought to change things ......
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