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Ellbee
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 172
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 Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Well, it’s said in FotR that Sam knows the land within twenty miles of Hobbiton, and while they’re walking through the Shire, Frodo says, “We slept late; and there are a good many miles to go.” And Strider says of the road to Rivendell, “I don’t know if the Road has ever been measured in miles beyond the Forsaken Inn…”
As for the other measurements, the chasm in Moria that Sam was afraid to jump was seven feet wide, and Aragorn’s sword was broken off a foot below the hilt. If Tolkien used feet, presumably inches are also acceptable.
I didn’t find anything about weight, except just a general “heavy” or “weighty.” That’s just what I could find on a quick scan, a deeper look would yield more info, I’m sure.
-Ell
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Feadan
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 4
Location: Somewhere East of Valinor
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks. I missed those completely. All that ever stuck with me was the use of league, and then I came across the appendix entries. I know I have seen no refrences to measured height other than Bullroarer, and somewhere he nmentions that Merry and Pippin are even taller. He mentions that some people are very tall, but avoids saying how tall. Giving an exact height does seem out of character in a ME story.
mk |
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Gaslight
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Another pet peeve of mine is just a matter of personal preference. I tend to avoid PWPs anyway, but I especially avoid ones that have the canon character of choice boinking some "I" character. Perhaps the author's intention is to put the reader in the role of the boinkee, or the author is simply writing out a personal fantasy. Either way, it always seems like a vanity piece. |
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sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Gaslight wrote: | | Another pet peeve of mine is just a matter of personal preference. I tend to avoid PWPs anyway, but I especially avoid ones that have the canon character of choice boinking some "I" character. Perhaps the author's intention is to put the reader in the role of the boinkee |
While I enjoy reading PWPs, I have to agree that I also don't like PWPs with some random Middle Earth wench hooking up with your canon character of choice. And I find it just a wee bit scary when an author puts the reader in the "driver's seat" because it reminds me on those choose your own adventure books from the 1980s.
For example -
Legolas is sprawled naked on the bed, beckoning to you to come join him for an evening of unadulterated pleasure. Do you...
A. Rip off your filmy gown and thrust your heaving bosom at him
and then join him on the bed
B. Decline regretfully and inform him that you must finish working
on your fanfic
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abandon thought, and let the dream descend... |
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Viv
Challenge Admin
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Um... A? |
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Gaslight
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| sindohte wrote: | For example -
Legolas is sprawled naked on the bed, beckoning to you to come join him for an evening of unadulterated pleasure. Do you...
A. Rip off your filmy gown and thrust your heaving bosom at him
and then join him on the bed
B. Decline regretfully and inform him that you must finish working
on your fanfic |
 Oops, gotta get back on my chair...
While the Choose Your Own Adventures didn't come to mind (and they should have - I think I read every one of them back in the 80s), I see exactly what you're saying. Putting me in the driver's seat is a bit scary, but also I think it reads awfully. I remember some smuff piece about a priestess (the "you" of the piece) undergoing some annual sex ritual in a field with Elrond, Haldir and Legolas. It just read like...stage directions. That's it! Like the "you/I/author/reader" is a director blocking out a scene in a play.
Director: "Legolas, you put your hand on my boob and squeeze it provocatively. Elrond, you suck my toes. Haldir, you do something unseen with those fingers to drive me insane with pleasure. And don't loose your marks, fellas." 
The few random wench PWPs I've read haven't sparked me either. It's all kind of shallow (most PWPs are anyway - hence the name!). The random serving wench/prostitute in the random inn/tavern/brothel has been done to DEATH! The optional offspring 9 months later is the piece de resistance.  Even a sentence or two implying a back story seems like a major cheat and half-hearted attempt at providing dimension to a character that is interchangeable with anyone possessing female parts. |
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Viv
Challenge Admin
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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True, most OFCs in LoTR het PWPs are generic and not very interesting. Unfortunately, that sort of makes LoTR het PWP in general a less-than-stellar subgenre.
It's very difficult to construct a PWP with canon characters without venturing into slashdom, totally defiling the essence of elves (Arwen, Galadriel, Elrond, Celeborn... none of these folks would ever cheat on their Troo Luvs... that just ain't elfy!), or doing the typical Aragorn/Eowyn or Boromir/Eowyn bit, both of which have been overdone (yes, yes, I know I've written an Aragorn/Eowyn smut biscuit; not a creative bone in my body).
Anyway, because Tolkien doesn't give us enough non-elf females, OFCs are almost necessary. Even if they are, by and large, roughly constructed characters. |
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Gaslight
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | | or doing the typical Aragorn/Eowyn or Boromir/Eowyn bit, both of which have been overdone |
 Boromir/Eowyn? Really? I've only seen that pairing done a couple times, and once it was only a TINY part of a much longer slash fic. Hmmmm, I'll need to do some looking. I'm curious. I'm more of a Faramir/Eowyn person, but I'll allow some leeway here for Boromir.  I can bend my sensibilities to allow her with Aragorn or Boromir (I'll play favorites here), but it's with others like Grima (ain't gonna happen) or Legolas (ditto) that I just can't wrap my mind around. |
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sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Or how about choice C? -
Rip off your gown, join Legolas on the bed, all for the perfectly acceptable purpose of conducting accurate "research" about the mating habits of Elves, which you will then describe in loving detail in your as yet to be completed fanfic.
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abandon thought, and let the dream descend... |
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Una
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Posts: 21
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Gaslight
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Una wrote: | | Another pet peeve, out of character characterisation. May it be Wimpy, teary-eyed Hobbit, Elf or Dwarf. |
Hear, hear! I just finished reading something where Sam was always in tears. I wanted to slap the little git. But I'm still undecided as to whether the fic was serious or a parody. Frodo and Aragorn were constantly hot to trot over one another, even when Frodo was injured, beaten and bruised. I couldn't decide whether it was a parody of incurableslut!Frodo or if it was really that awful.  It wasn't labeled as such, but Frodo kept tripping, horniness abounded, and Sam was always in tears -- that seems like stereotypes taken for all they were worth. I'd email the author and ask, but I don't want to get flamed if I guess wrong.  |
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Moralanqua
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1051
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:07 am Post subject: |
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My biggest peeve is modern expression and/or slang in a fic set in ME.
Sometimes the author has it in there by sheer accident - it still makes me grit my teeth and stop reading for a sec.
I gotta say, America authors are the absolute worst offenders. Usually the under 30's. Why? Why cant they just re-read the chapters and realise? When i do this, i make sure i deprive myself of elf porn for at least 10 minutes a day as punishment.
And i also hate reading Thranduil as a randy, psychotic despot. This is not fair to the Elvenking. He sired Legolas and therefore deserves respect, lusting and worship.
oh - and inappropriate names. Elvish names that are 26 characters long, Modern names or author self insert names. WHY?!!!
Quenyan names on elves/men in post 2nd age ME also nip my head.
~im finished ranting~  |
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dolarabee
Site Admin
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 175
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| LuckyObsidian wrote: | | Quenyan names on elves/men in post 2nd age ME also nip my head. |
I must admit that I most likely would not notice those...
do.
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Je sais de la vie qu'elle se termine souvent au lit,
Et que d'autres ont bien plus de chance trépassent de rire ou de jouissance,
Mais pire que la mort qui vient c'est l'amour qui ne vient jamais.
~ Daniel Bélanger |
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Viv
Challenge Admin
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| LuckyObsidian wrote: |
Quenyan names on elves/men in post 2nd age ME also nip my head. |
Yes!
And when you see an oops in a fic, please point it out. Suggesting ways to improve is *not* flaming. Oftimes the author really wants to create the best possible story and would very much appreciate constructive feedback. My beta has picked up on a couple of anachronisms that make me blush, but there may be others (my shorter pieces, generally, get shoved off onto the public without a beta.. .eek!).
And as an American who is under 30 (just... what month is it? lol) , I bristled at the stereotype. How do you know that poor quality fic is coming from that demographic? Most folks don't begin their stories with personal biographies. And even if the numbers of crappy fics written by Americans are overwhelming, you really aren't being fair to the few Americans under 30 who *are* putting a lot of effort and time and concern into their writing.
Unless of course we all do suck, and everyone has been too kind to tell us the truth thus far. |
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Roisin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 449
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:49 am Post subject: |
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I blame some of the poor quality of fic on the American school system. My niece, for example, is a very intelligent 13 year old who reads voraciously (just finished To Kill a Mockingbird ), but she cannot write a coherent paragraph because they apparently don't bother with either teaching or reinforcing writing skills.
It's sad how many kids in the U.S. have to take remedial writing courses when they get to college. I suspect my niece is going to be one of them, and it's a shame.
Roisin[/u] |
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