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Saralitazie
Joined: 17 Apr 2004 Posts: 297 Location: Stamping Property of Litzy the Lush all over Glorfindel.
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Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Haha, just had to add my two cents... I was recently exploring my appendices and rereading the part in TTT where Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli reach Rohan. (Don't you just love that poem Aragorn recites: "Where now the horse and the rider, etc".) My opinion would be that the Common Tongue would have been fairly prevailent amongst the upper classes - but perhaps not so much the lower classes. The lords of the Riddermark were, after all, in association with those outside of Rohan, and I think it likely that they would have taught their sons, who would have taught their sons...after all, they DID swear an oath to Gondor - hopefully ya'll know what I'm talking about, and if not, read your appendices! - so it would have been a good thing to speak the same language.
As for the lower classes, when would they need it? Why bother learning it? It's my opinion that the knowledge of Westron among them was much like most [teens] knowledge of - say, French - today. Limited, probably to a few common words and phrases.
And that concludes Sarah's oh-so-profound restatement of what every one else said.  _________________ "Society does not want free men. They torment freedom, democracy, anything you want. But they do not want free men. Society wants conditioned men; men who march in step." - Henri Charriere
-Litzy the Lush  |
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SilverMoonLady

Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 1201 Location: Breaking in a Brandybuck... *wicked grin*
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Well thanks:)
Lots of useful info:) _________________ Suffering an again off again connection with life...
The joy of motherhood: what a woman experiences when all the kids are in bed.
*local PHF union rep* *tart of the week*
Shelob the Cookie Baker |
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Taethowen

Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 7 Location: Oklahoma, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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okay . . . I've skim-read this thread, so if I missed it, I'm sorry, but the one thing I've seen in here is that it looks like everyone thinks that the language of Rohan was Westron, but it wasn't.
There were similarities between the language of the Shire and the language of Rohan, because it says in The Two Towers that Merry and Pippin recognized many of the words. But it was a different language from Westron, because when Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli arrived at Meduseld, the guard they talked to said that he had orders not to let anyone in who couldn't understand and speak the language of the Rohirrim. Gandalf and Aragorn were the only two of that group that could, I believe.
Tolkien chose to represent the language of the Rohirrim with Old English, and many of the names and words used in the books can be traced back to OE. I use OE for my Rohirric stories. I use the same dictionary as Ania, and I highly recommend it. _________________ Rebekah's Raiments
Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. - Hebrews 11:1 |
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SilverMoonLady

Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 1201 Location: Breaking in a Brandybuck... *wicked grin*
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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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That was somewhat the concensus we reached, but thanks for your continued interest:)
And welcome to the forum:) _________________ Suffering an again off again connection with life...
The joy of motherhood: what a woman experiences when all the kids are in bed.
*local PHF union rep* *tart of the week*
Shelob the Cookie Baker |
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Eyborg
Joined: 08 May 2004 Posts: 429 Location: Reykjavík, Iceland
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Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| But the hobbits in the Shire still spoke Westron, didn't they? |
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SilverMoonLady

Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 1201 Location: Breaking in a Brandybuck... *wicked grin*
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Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Hobbits of the Shire (and Bree) did speak Westron as they learned it from the Men they encountered, though with an "accent" and their own twists on usage & the like. It is theorized (by Tolkien himself if I remember correctly) that they used to speak a language akin to that of the Rohirrim and the Men of the Gladden Fields area, as some old words have remained in the language and the place names, especially in Buckland and the Marish (where the Stoors settled). There is no record or memory of their original language if they had one.
The language of Rohan has the same root as Westron, but only the way french and italian have the same root. There is a similarity, so that it 'feels' less foreign than say dutch or russian, but it is not comprehensible without learning.
That is why Merry is described as feeling familiar with the words sung and spoken around him while he traveled with them, but he could not actually "understand" the words. _________________ Suffering an again off again connection with life...
The joy of motherhood: what a woman experiences when all the kids are in bed.
*local PHF union rep* *tart of the week*
Shelob the Cookie Baker |
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Taethowen

Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 7 Location: Oklahoma, USA
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Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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They did, Eyborg, but they still had some words that came from the language they spoke before settling in the Shire that were similar to the language of Rohan at the time of the War of the Ring.
<lalala . . . simul post . . . ignore mine *points up* that one's much better . . . *g*> _________________ Rebekah's Raiments
Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. - Hebrews 11:1 |
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Andreth
Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Posts: 1211
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SilverMoonLady

Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 1201 Location: Breaking in a Brandybuck... *wicked grin*
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Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I am disgustingly obsessed
And a complete anthro geek to boot  _________________ Suffering an again off again connection with life...
The joy of motherhood: what a woman experiences when all the kids are in bed.
*local PHF union rep* *tart of the week*
Shelob the Cookie Baker |
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Eyborg
Joined: 08 May 2004 Posts: 429 Location: Reykjavík, Iceland
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Sil and Taethowen! That's actually what I had in mind too.
I guess it would be similar to me going to Scandinavia and understanding some of the words, although it's still a different language (I actually understand the Scandinavian languages, but that's because I've learned them).  |
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