[sindohte]

Discussion on the chapter - Flight of the Noldor will officially begin on Monday 7/26.

Anna will begin the discussion of this chapter.

Anyone wandering by this thread should feel free to raise questions or make comments.

Please try to keep the comments on this thread strictly related to discussion of the Silm.

[Anna]

Hookay, here we go!

Well, the last chapter (Of the darkening of Valinor) ended with Melkor triumphing and leaving everything cloaked in darkness.
'Of the flight of the Noldor' takes off right there in the darkness. The chapter pretty much begins with describing the state of shock everybody seemed to be in.

The Valar are greiving the destruction of the Trees. Especially Yavanna is stricken by it. When she touches the Trees, they break easily b/c Ungoliant has drained them completely of their life-force. She then tells the Valar that she would be able to revive the Trees if only she could have the Light of the Silmarils. Manwë asks Fëanor if he is willing to give up the Silmarils so that the damage caused by Melkor could heal. Fëanor recalls Melkor´s lies about the Valar wanting to rob him of the Silmarils and rejects Manwë´s request in his mind, but gives in anyway.
Nienna begins washing away the filth of Ungoliant from the Trees with her tears, but before Fëanor can give up the Silmarils, messengers from Formenos show up with bad news. Melkor and Ungoliant had paid Finwë a visit -- killing him and stealing all the jewels in Formenos. Yes, the Silmarils as well...

Naturally, this does not make Fëanor a happy camper! He renames (sp) Melkor -- now calling him Morgoth (the Black Foe of the World) and from now on he is known by that name alone. He (Fëanor, that is) also curses Manwë, blaiming him for summoning him to Taniquetil, thinking that if he had only stayed at home he could have saved his father and defended his treasure. After that he runs off into the night to mourn his father.

In the meantime Morgoth and Ungoliant crosses over the Helcaraxë to escape the Valar. He tries to reach the ruins of Angband where he hopes to get rid of spider lady, but she´s not stupid. She stops him, demanding him to fulfil his promise to sate her hunger with the treasure from Formenos. Morgoth grudgingly gives in and feeds her with the stolen gems -- except the Silmarils! When she wants them too he refuses, which pisses her off immensely. She attacks him and things look quite bad for Morgoth, until his Balrogs come to his rescue after hearing him cry out in anguish. They kick Ungoliant´s ass with their whips and she flees to Beleriand.

Morgoth re-opens Angband, gathering all his evil servants again. There he makes a crown for himself, since he now calls himself King of the World. In his crown he sets the Silmarils.

The Valar, the Maiar and the Vanyar remained numb with grief a long time after Morgoth had escaped. The Noldor returned to Tirion and mourned there.

All of a sudden, Fëanor returns to the city, summoning everybody to a meeting. Pretty much everybody comes to hear him give a rebellious, grand and overwhelming speech filled with anger, hatred and pride. 'Why, O people of the Noldor.....why should we longer serve the jealous Valar, who cannot keep us nor even their own realm secure from their Enemy? And though he be now their foe, are not they and he of one kin? Vengeance calls me hence, but even were it otherwise I would not dwell longer in the same land with the kin of my father´s slayer and of the thief of my treasure.'
After speaking for a long time, urging the Noldor to accept him as their king and following him to ME he, along with his sons, swears an oath to pursue 'with vengeance and hatred ' anyone who would steal the Silmarils.

Many were the ones who spoke against him, but in the end the majority of the Noldor decided to leave Valinor in favor of ME. However, most of them followed Fingolfin, instead of Fëanor.
Btw, Galadriel was one of those who wanted to go to ME to rule a realm of her own.

Fëanor realized they needed ships to cross the ocean, but was pretty much too lazy and too impatient to have an entire fleet built. He asked the Teleri if they would sell or loan him their ships, but was turned down. He and a lot of his followers, then, stole their ships and killed many of the Teleri in the process -- thus they became responsible for the Kinslaying at the Alqualondë. For this, the House of Fëanor was forever doomed by the Valar.
Finarfin and his people had a change of heart and turned back to Valinor and were pardoned. There he was set to rule the remaining Noldor. His sons were, however, still among the sons of Fingolfin.

The Noldor came at last to the Helcaraxë. Fëanor decided that it was better to cross the sea with the ships, then to try crossing it on the Helcaraxë. But since the ships were too few, he snuck off all of a sudden with the ships and the people he deemed loyal to him, leaving the others behind. Fingolfin was one of those who were left behind.

When Fëanor and company arrived in ME, Maedhros wanted to send over the ships to the others, but Fëanor laughed and said: 'Let the ships burn!'
Fingolfin and his people saw this and knew they were betrayed. In bitterness and anger they crossed the Helcaraxë led by Fingolfin and his sons, and by Finrod and Galadriel. Many were lost, but in the end the survivors managed to set foot in ME.

The chapter ends with: 'Small love for Fëanor or his sons had those that marched at last behind him, and blew their trumpets in Middle-Earth at the first rising of the Moon.'


I know, this was incredibly long-winded and dull......but I´m just sooo tired. Been working too much. Sorry...

Will be back tomorrow with my thoughts on this chapter. Feel free to begin discussing without me!

[sindohte]

Thanks for the summary Anna This latest chapter was indeed long, but I throughly enjoyed it because of all the soap opera-like drama. Although there are Feanor lovers out there, I am definitely not one of them. He truly reminded me of Jim Jones or some other crazed cult leader leading a group of people to their with spellbinding words and beautiful promises.

And Feanor's behavior that led to the Kinslaying and then abandoning his brother and his followers on the Northern Ice was simply reprehensible. And then the Oath of Feanor? Sheesh. We all know that is going to end up badly for a bunch of people. All I have to say is that Feanor is definitely not great leader material. His greed, hot temper, pride, and arrogance led to not only his downfall, but also to that of many other Elves.

If anyone has anything good to say in defense of this Elf *kicks BB* please share your thoughts with me.

[inglor]

Here's something I've wondered about the Oath:
Maedhros and Maglor seem to be the most un-Feanorish of the whole clan, I wonder how long after they Swore do you think they knew the reults of that oath would be bad, similar to "Buyers Remorse" but an order of magnitude worse.

Inglor

[Anna]

Good evening all. Sorry about my last post. I just got caught up in it all and was too sleepy to sort it out.
I promise I won´t be so long-winded next week.

Oh, and I promise not to be all obsessed with Ungoliant this time!

You´re absolutely right, Sind. Fëanor is certainly not a very good leader. I wuv him anyway...
But, he is absolutely nutters, that guy! At least by the end of the chapter. At first he comes across more like a somewhat selfish, arrogant and spoiled person, yet pretty normal, I think. He does agree with giving up the Silmarils, after all.
However, I wonder if the news about his beloved father´s death and the stolen Silmarils weren´t the final straw. I think he had been living in a downward spiral towards a complete breakdown for quite some time, and Morgoth was the one who finally pushed him over the edge.
Everything Fëanor does after that seems to get worse and worse, leading up to the Kin-slaying and the ship-burning.

No, Fëanor is not good leader material at all! Fingolfin, on the other hand.....

Btw, looove the passage about the Prophecy of the North and the Doom of the Noldor!

'Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains. On the House of Fëanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermoast East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue.......................................................................................................The Valar have spoken'.

oooooo.....*shivers*

[BittenBuggy]

[inglor]

I still say Feanor being crazy is too easy. Except for Galadriel and maybe Finrod, he got more of the Prof's thought and press than almost any other Elf. Was he Ghengis Khan ruthless or Stalin crazy? Though I think he did finally loose it at the end. Maybe after he found out one of the Ambarussa were still in the ships when they burned.
IMHO, the death of his Father enraged him and hardened his heart, him killing his son sent him over the edge.

I'm just saying there was a method to his madness, though if Andreth can call down the Word from the Letters or HoME, I'll shut up

Inglor

[Andreth]

I have to weigh in late on this chapter and then get busy on the next. Forgive me if I repeat something somebody else has already said.

Nope, Inglor, I've never found anywhere that Tolkien gives any real insight into what motivations Feanor had. I think he wanted him to be one of those morally ambiguous characters that you couldn't really count as good or bad. He was somewhere in between. I have to agree with you in that I don't think he was crazy. There have been times when I thought about it that I leaned that way, but what he's doing just seems too methodical - that's not exactly the word I'm looking for, but close enough. Calculating, that's a better word.

Anyway, a few things I wanted to touch on in this chapter:

Yavanna says that 'within Ea' the Valar have the power to create some things only once, like the Trees. This shows something that people sometimes overlook - that the Valar weren't omnipotent. Their powers were limited - none of them but Manwe could speak directly to Eru - and when all these Ainur came down into Arda they became bound to it until it's end, a lot like the Elves' situation.

I've never agreed with where it says that Feanor at first agreed to let the Valar use the Silmarils. To me he seems more like a petulant child, crossing his arms and saying, 'fine. I'll do it, but only because you're making me' then he tells the Valar that their asking only proves they're like Melkor.

Also his father's death - why did it freak him out so badly? I know the whole idea of death was a new concept to Elves like Feanor who had been born in Valinor and had never had to deal with it like the Elves in Middle-earth did. But Elves are re-embodied and this means Finwe would come back. He also doesn't mind dishing out the same kind of pain he's feeling to his kin later on, when it came to him getting his own way.

The Balrogs getting to Lammoth so quickly always perturbed me. That's a pretty long way to travel in so short a distance. And now, between the energy he expends in stealing the Silmarils and the energy he uses in rebuilding Angband, Morgoth is now bound to his body and seldom leaves his fortress because he's afraid of his body being destroyed.

Feanor slips into the role of politician very easily. We've all seen in present day events how easily people can be stirred up when they're emotionally reeling from a great tragedy. Then Feanor and sons swear their oath, using the names of the Valar whom he had just scorned and insulted. To me, this seems like just another slap in the face to the Valar.

Finarfin shows an interesting role as the peacemaker. There's usually at least one of these in dysfunctional families. And only Orodreth spoke up and supported his father - a harbinger of the peacemaker role he himself would later play.