[Scribe]

I think the trouble most people have is the preconceived notion that every OFC is a Sue. OMC don’t get the same scrutiny but mention a female not written by Tolkien and there are people who will go into a foaming mouth frenzy. I can understand their perceptions, having seen some of the unmitigated rubbish that’s out on the web. When I first started reading LOTR fic, every second story on that archive was a Legomance. This would not have been so bad if these stories were good because I’m a champion of the OFC as well. However, they were truly awful and mostly written by teenagers who have no concept of plot other than to sketch out a stories whose meagre framework exists entirely to facilitate fantasies about their lust object.

Upon embarking on my stories of Middle Earth, I have been asked why I continue to keep the character of Melia around once Easterling was done. I do this to show that she can exist in beyond the confines of the original story where she was paired with Legolas. Many have told me that Melia is such a fixture in their minds now; they feel as if that she’s a part of canon which amuses me to no end. However, it does please me that the effort I take in portraying her as more than Legolas’ love interest is paying off. I think that is the problem with most Legomances, there are so many that it’s hard to take them seriously. Its hard to write a story that has an OFC staying in the mind after the story is done, or makes you want to know what she’s about after the romance is over.

And thanks to the Mary Sue factor, anyone offering any details description of their OFC is accused of the same. I think some description is necessary, ‘not to the extent of violet eyes that changed colour or hair so black it looked like myriads sparkles of the twilight sky’ but enough for you to get an idea of this character as a flesh and blood person. It is partially why I provide images of my characters, from Melia to what I think Pallando and Lothiriel would look like. Given the audience a face to fixate upon legitimizes one’s perception of the character’s personality. Whose appreciation of Boromir has not improved thanks to Sean Bean’s portrayal? I mean with Legolas and Orlando Bloom it is a foregone conclusion but you know what I mean.

Oh and where does it say that every woman in middle earth must be virginal if they’re not married. I had one nitwit call Melia and outright slut because she had sex before meeting Legolas. I tell you, these people have never read any history books or had a life.

[KhazarKhum]

I personally love the stories where the author is clearly in the dark about sex; they never quite seem to know what all the parts do!

[Gaslight]

[Ariel]

[Gaslight]

[Maram68]

[KhazarKhum]

[Ariel]

[miriel361]

One of the things that really interests me about history is the role of women in it. When I think of Middle Earth, I think a lot of medieval Europe, especially England. I think that's a valid point because Tolkien did write a saga for England.

Women in the middle ages didn't have very many rights either by law or by custom. They basically had the rights lent to them by their 'protector' i.e. husband or father / brother. Therefore a noble woman had more rights than a farmer's wife or a servent.

NOble women were kept virginal until marriage to ensure that the child they bore was their husbands (oh and there really were chastity belts - I've seen them!) They didn't have the right to choose their husbands - that was their father's right. However this doesn't mean that those noble women didn't know about sex! Remember only the lord and lady of a keep had their own chamber, everyone else slept in the great hall. Hard to not know what was going on!

On the other hand, servent women were easy game for any noble. They didn't even have the right to say no, even if their menfolk were big and strong. Le droit de Seigneur was a very real custom.

What does this have to do with Tolkien? Well I think the reason why there aren't very many women in the epics is because the women folk were kept protected and locked up. Except for Eowyn - but then her people seem to be based on the celtic culture, in particular those tribes that worshipped Epona - the horse goddess. They did recognise that their women have rights over their own bodies.

Still we are not Tolkien and we are free to write what we want (so long as we don't publish it!)

Likewise as an Adult, I prefer my heroines to know what they want. And as for smut, yeah I love well written smut and I even try to write it (hopefully that comment about badly written smut wasn't for me Maram!).

[Gaslight]

[Maram68]

[NancyBrooke]

Just curious, has anyone ever come across a same sex Sue story? m/m or f/f? And if not, why not? do you think. And what would the male equivalent of a Mary Sue be anyway? A Sweet William, perhaps? A Richard Write?

[Scribe]

In light of recent discussions on this thread, I’d like to issue a statement to the parties responsible (and they know who they are) to consider themselves well and truly warned in light of the posts that have been appearing in this thread. We’ve tried to establish a pretty open forum here on the basis of the honor system. You are in essence allowed to discuss anything you wish on the Open Scrolls Archive’s forum as long as it is not derogatory or hurtful to anyone. The purpose of this place is to create an environment where people can feel comfortable about their work, not live in fear that someone might decide that their story is something worthy of using as a text book example of how fan fic should or should not be written. Naming an author and then proceeding to use her story repeatedly to illustrate a point is not acceptable behavior on this forum, particularly if the point is a negative one.

Before hands go raising up, screaming to us about the meaning of free speech, let me tell you that we are the ones who coined that policy for this forum. However, we did so with the belief that posters were capable of understanding the basic concepts of courtesy. No matter how bad or good a story is, there is no justification to allow it to be ripped apart in a public forum. If you wish to discuss components of a story, there are better ways than using a point blank reference that will offend the person authoring it. If you have any thoughts about the way a story is written, please have the common decency to do it by writing the author in private and not making your views the subject of a public discussion. I’m sure if it were the other way around; many of you would like that same courtesy.

For most part, this courtesy is an unwritten rule that has been adhered to by the majority of our posters. For authors who had been affected by those who have yet to learn better, I can only extend the administration’s sincerest apologies. We will try to do better by you in future.

Regards,

Open Scrolls Admininstration.

[Ariel]

I don't think anyone here would want to upset an author and I have kept from naming any names except from fics I like for that very reason. I have mentioned this character as an illustration of one that worked even though it used a premise that could be seen as overdone. That the author was able to use this type of very well used plot device and have it work credibly, shows a significant level of skill. I was intending it as a compliment, though perhaps others reading it and not knowing my particular brand of wit (and the fact that it's pretty lame) would not have seen that.

That said, I do hope you don't see fit to close down this thread too. The discourse has been refreshing and I think the variety of authors discussing things on this thread has brought people who might not have seen eye to eye into closer understanding. If there is anything that I have written that you have questions on, please contact me. I see myself as your guest and am more than willing to play by the rules, as I hope you have seen me do. On any forum, one needs to get the feel of the 'house' rules before they become second nature. Be assured that I will work harder at making myself clear, so that I do not to unintentionally offend anyone.

Ariel

[LuthienTinuviel]

Hello, folks... I'm new here.

Btw,

How on earth do I publish my fanfic here? Other than the forums , I mean. Somehow the workings of this website eludes me still... =P