[sindohte]

Discussion on the chapter - A Short Rest will officially begin on Monday 9/20.

SpaceWeavil will begin the discussion of this chapter.

Anyone wandering by this thread should feel free to raise questions or make comments.

Please try to keep the comments on this thread strictly related to discussion of the Hobbit.

[SpaceWeavil]

OK. ‘A Short Rest’

Having been reunited with Gandalf, Bilbo and the dwarves now follow the wizard eastwards towards Elrond’s house. Gandalf has already sent word to Rivendell and they are expected, but first have to find the place. They travel all day before the finally come across the entrance to the hidden valley.

They head down through the wooded side of the valley, and are welcomed by a group of elves singing at them from amongst the trees. Singing a load of absolute rubbish mostly. But eventually one unnamed elf emerges and shows them the way to the bridge over the Loudwater that will take them to the Last Homely House.

They decide to head straight over, rather than stay and sing with the elves since the dwarves are more interested in getting supper.

They spend ‘at least fourteen days’ in the valley, exchanging stories and such, and getting advice on the best way to continue through the Misty Mountains. They decide eventually to depart on midsummer’s morning.

The night before (Midsummer’s eve) Elrond finally has a look at the swords they got from the trolls and tells them the weapons’ provenance, then gets down to examining their map. Elrond discovers a secret inscription on the map, written in ‘moon letters’ which can only be viewed when held up to the moonlight, and quite often this has to be the same phase of the moon as when they were written. (Which luckily it is). The inscription tells them to ‘stand by the grey stone when the thrush knocks and the setting sun with the last light of Durin’s Day will shine upon the key-hole’. Thorin tells them the proper date of Durin’s Day, then they head down to the river for more singing and dancing with the elves.

Finally on midsummer morning they leave the valley, heading for the Misty Mountains.

__

Right, first of all, I hope that summary was okay. Haven’t done this before and it looked a bit long after I’d written it. If so, apologies.

My thoughts on this chapter;
The first part of this chapter deals almost entirely with a description of the lands around Rivendell, and to my knowledge this is the most detail given in Tolkien’s works about what the place actually ‘looks’ like. So for that reason, I’ve always found this chapter very useful for research. One line that has always seemed a bit odd to me is Bilbo’s ‘it smells like elves’ – never quite fathomed what exactly Bilbo thought elves smelled like. Pine trees?

Then of course we get to the ‘tra-la-lally’ song thing, which I must admit I skip whenever I read this chapter as it makes me cringe. Personally I like to believe that they were drunk. That’s the only way I can explain it. But again it comes down to how much of the history of ME Tolkien had worked out before starting on The Hobbit. As far as I know, he didn’t seem to work out the history of Rivendell / Imladris until he got to working on the appendices. I think in the drafts of the Tale of Years he had Imladris founded far earlier in the second age, and made no mention of the War of the Elves and Sauron, and the fact that most of Elrond’s elves would be refugees from Eregion. But even saying he might not have had in mind the ‘tragic’ or military history behind Rivendell, that would give the elves a more serious edge, I still find it hard to equate those elves with anything in LOTR and the Silm.

There is, though, an awful lot in this chapter that ties in with the future stories in the Silm and LOTR, which I completely missed when I first read this book as a kid, but now it adds so much depth to the story. Elrond’s half-elven ancestry is hinted at; ‘In those days of our tale there were still some people who had both elves and heroes of the North as ancestors, and Elrond the master of the house was their chief.’ That does hint to me that there are other half-elves about, unless he just meant the twins and Arwen.

My all time favourite bit of this chapter though is the fact that Gandalf and Thorin are both cheesed that Elrond found the ‘moon letters’ before they did. Made me laugh.

(Hope this was okay)

[sindohte]

[Ellbee]

I dunno, I didn't think the singing Elves was all that cringe-inducing. Doesn't Sam describe the Elves so - "Some are as proud as kings, others as merry as children"? (That's a huge paraphrase, since I'm at work with no books.) It seems more unrealistic to think that all Elves would always be noble and serious than that some of them could be kind of silly at times.

-Ell

[SpaceWeavil]

Actually since I posted, I've been stuck thinking about that song, and something occurred to me. That elf song sounds daft in English - but what would they have been singing in? Sindarin? If so, maybe it sounds better in the original form?

[Aerin]

Daft in any language if you ask the peeps at the Counsil of Elrond.

Personally, I agree with SW, I hope think they were tipsy.

You all picked my fave points of the chappie, damn it.

I also agree that Gandalf is playing a very deep game. He must have limited omnipotence and enjoy it!

[SpaceWeavil]

What worries me is that it says in the chapter that song is the only one that could be written down - the rest were 'a good deal sillier' or something like that. So what on earth (or on Middle Earth) were the other ones like?

[Aerin]

yo ho yo ho a noldo's life for me

[artanisoflorien]

Well, the singing elves have always bothered me when I read this chapter in the past. It seemed a little "Keebler" to me almost. I tend to skip it also. This time though, after reading everyone's thoughts on it, I went back and looked at it again…and still can't seem to reconcile it with the impression I've always had of Tolkien's elves.

Maybe it was the presence of all those dwarves…they just sort of lost their heads!

[NancyBrooke]

[SpaceWeavil]

That bit about the 'elf-friend' made me look as well. I wondered if it meant an elf who was a friend, like of the hobbits or whatever as opposed to one who kept out of the way, but then there is also that line in the description of Elrond (which I am quoting from memory, so it might not be exactly accurate) about his being 'as fair as an elven lord' or something like that.

Well, yeah, he's fair as an elven lord because he is one, surely?

And yet there's the bit about Elrond playing a part in other adventures or what have you, that suggests the Professor already had a sense of the history.

All a bit confusing

[sindohte]

The exact line is - "He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer."

I wonder if Tolkien worded it that way because -

1. He had not quite figured out how to deal with the problem of individual with human and Elven lineage

2. Elrond technically was not born an Elf lord, but made the choice to become one

[artanisoflorien]

When I read it, I read it the second way…with the emphasis on "lord" rather than "elf" lord. I hadn't really even thought about the other possibility. Hmmm.