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ilistine
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 139
Location: In the cottage nextdoor to Imedhuir Hamgeredis
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 Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 4:10 pm Post subject: Aragorn: question about his lineage |
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I was having a conversation with my mom about Aragorn and we both wanted an answer regarding his lineage, If anyone can help, here is the question:
What blood line is he from? I was thinking half Numenorean and half Dunedain? My mom thought half-elven, half Numenorean. I looked in the appendix but all I could figure was that he was distant relative to Arwen on the Numenorean side and that his mother was Dunedain. Does anyone have any clue? I figure to be a true heir of Isildur he had to have blood relatives from both of the lines of kings. Well any help is going to staighten this up. Thanks Ilistine |
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Isabeau
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Aragorn: question about his lineage |
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| Quote: | I was having a conversation with my mom about Aragorn and we both wanted an answer regarding his lineage, If anyone can help, here is the question:
What blood line is he from? I was thinking half Numenorean and half Dunedain? |
It is confusing, isn't it? He can't be half Numenorean and half Dunedain because the Dunedain are basically the northern remnant of the Numenoreans, even as the people of Gondor are the southern remnant.
| Quote: | | My mom thought half-elven, half Numenorean. I looked in the appendix but all I could figure was that he was distant relative to Arwen on the Numenorean side and that his mother was Dunedain. Does anyone have any clue? |
| Quote: | | "In the days of Tar-Elendil the first ships of the Numenoreans came back to Middle-earth. His elder child was a daughter, Silmarien. Her son was Valandil, first of the lords of Adunie in the west of the land, renowned for their friendship with the Eldar. From him were descended Amandil, the last lord, and his son Elendil the Tall." ROTK, Appendix A |
So Elendil was a direct descendent of the Kings of Numenor, who were descendents of Elros, Elrond's brother who chose to be mortal rather than of elf-kind. Arwen and Aragorn are therefore cousins many, many many times removed.
| Quote: | | I figure to be a true heir of Isildur he had to have blood relatives from both of the lines of kings. Well any help is going to staighten this up. Thanks Ilistine |
Actually, he does have blood from both lines.
| Quote: | | "On the death of Ondoher and his sons (Ondoher was the King of Gondor), Arvedui of the North-kingdom claimed the crown of Gondor, as the direct descendant of Isildur, and as the husband of Firiel, the only surviving child of Ondoher. The claim was rejected." ROTK, Appendix A. |
There's a lot more about this there, and it's interesting, but I don't want this post to be a mile long. Arvedui was the last King of Arthedain, the North-kingdom in which the blood of Isildur was undiluted. His son, Aranarth, became the first Chieftain of the Dunedain, and Aragorn is his direct descendent. So here's your line of descent--Aragorn goes in direct descent back to Aranarth, first Chieftain of the Dunedain who was the son of Arvedui, last King of Arthedain and Firiel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor and direct descendent of Anarion. So he does have blood from both lines. Arvedui was descended directly from Isildur who was the son of Elendil the Tall who was descended from Valandil the son of Silmarien, daughter of Tar-Elendil the King of Numenor, who was descended from Elros. Whew! Hope this helps.
Basically, the people of Gondor had to agree to let the line of Isildur rule there again, since Arvedui's claim had been denied.
| Quote: | "'Men of Gondor, hear now the Steward of this Realm! Behold! one has come to claim the kingship again at last. Here is Aragorn son of Arathorn, chieftain of the Dunedain of Arnor, Captain of the Host of the West, bearer of the Star of the North, wielder of the Sword Reforged, victorious in battle, whose hands bring healing, the Elfstone, Elessar of the line of Valandil, Isildur's son, Elendil's son of Numenor. Shall he be king and enter into the City and dwell there?'
And all the host and all the people cried yeawith one voice."
ROTK, The Steward and the King |
What makes matters complicated is that Boromir and Faramir are distantly descended from Anarion as well, and could have made a claim to the throne. But I'll let people who are better geneologists than I talk about that one!
Last edited by Isabeau on Sun Sep 28, 2003 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Leila
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
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Location: the Pegasus Galaxy
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Aragorn: question about his lineage |
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| Isabeau wrote: |
What makes matters complicated is that Boromir and Faramir are distantly descended from Anarion as well, and could have made a claim to the throne. But I'll let people who are better geneologists than I talk about that one! |
Really? That's news to me.
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Isabeau
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Aragorn: question about his lineage |
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| Leila wrote: | | Isabeau wrote: |
What makes matters complicated is that Boromir and Faramir are distantly descended from Anarion as well, and could have made a claim to the throne. But I'll let people who are better geneologists than I talk about that one! |
Really? That's news to me. |
All the Appendices say is that the Stewards are descended from the Steward of King Minardil, who was named Hurin of Emyn Arnen (so Faramir is going back home to the land of his forefathers when he becomes Prince of Ithilien). But a friend of mine who is a canon expert told me this a couple of weeks ago during a discussion on another subject entirely. I'll look her up and get the dirt on this and get back to you. I think it's in HoME or one of those. |
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Isabeau
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Aragorn: question about his lineage |
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| Quote: | | All the Appendices say is that the Stewards are descended from the Steward of King Minardil, who was named Hurin of Emyn Arnen (so Faramir is going back home to the land of his forefathers when he becomes Prince of Ithilien). But a friend of mine who is a canon expert told me this a couple of weeks ago during a discussion on another subject entirely. I'll look her up and get the dirt on this and get back to you. I think it's in HoME or one of those. |
OK, here you go. I didn't get it exactly right.
It's in Peoples of Middle Earth.
| Quote: | | "...the Hurinionath were not in the direct line of descent from Elendil, (but) they were ultimately of royal origin." |
Michael Martinez, who has written some very good essays on Tolkien, has a very interesting one about the Stewards here:
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/92091
In it, he discusses their role in history and speculates exactly how they are related to Elendil. It's good stuff. Sorry about the earlier inaccuracy. |
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dolarabee
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Joined: 21 Apr 2003
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Aragorn: question about his lineage |
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Wow. Thanks for that. Very interesting. I really agree with his view of Boromir.
do.
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miriel361
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:18 am Post subject: |
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God don't you just love forums like this? Sure beats the hell out of re-reading all the books. 'Ask and ye shall receive!'
Miriel |
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ilistine
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 139
Location: In the cottage nextdoor to Imedhuir Hamgeredis
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:42 pm Post subject: Thanks.... |
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 Many thanks, I have 2 small kids and trying to read the appendix and understand it was getting difficult. I have learned more than I requested, what a blessing !!! |
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Hanasian
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Somewhere in Eriador
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| Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:07 am Post subject: Re: Aragorn: question about his lineage |
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| Isabeau wrote: | Michael Martinez, who has written some very good essays on Tolkien, has a very interesting one about the Stewards here:
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/92091
In it, he discusses their role in history and speculates exactly how they are related to Elendil. It's good stuff. Sorry about the earlier inaccuracy. |
As a matter of public service, all of Michael Martinez's writings on Middle Earth are, and have been for some time, off suite 101. They all can now be found here on Michael Martinez's Middle Earth Blog
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Dunedain Ranger of the North
Annalist, Physician, & Historian
of The Black Company of the Dúnedain,
The Free Company of Arnor. |
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Hanasian
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Somewhere in Eriador
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| Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:10 am Post subject: |
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I couldn't find an 'Edit' button. Just wanted to add ...
| ilistine wrote: | | Many thanks, I have 2 small kids and trying to read the appendix and understand it was getting difficult. I have learned more than I requested, what a blessing !!! |
ilistine, your two small kids aren't so small these days? Teenagers? early 20's?
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Dunedain Ranger of the North
Annalist, Physician, & Historian
of The Black Company of the Dúnedain,
The Free Company of Arnor. |
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